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New professional. 32 mag revolver

Discussion in 'Gadgets & Gear' started by jill jackson, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. jackknife

    jackknife

    Oct 2, 2004
    By leghog's logic, anyone should be able to shoot a Bond Arms derringer in .44 mag with enough training. Or a .500 Smith and Wesson. After all, the recoil is just perceived and not really relevant.

    All those F.B.I. agents who could not shot the .40 should have been sent to a shrink to convince them all that they were wrong, and that issue .40 did not really recoil that bad, it was just their un-manly perception of recoil. Instead, they wasted more of our tax dollars going back to 9mm.

    I guess when perception and reality clash, it can get confusing.
     
    Danke42 and benchwarmer380 like this.
  2. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja

    496
    Dec 19, 2018
    That's not why the Feds dropped the .40.

    They went back to 9mm after advances in ammo gave the 9mm performance on par with a .40 and allowed more rounds to be carried in the mag/gun.

    USPSA matches use .40 cal, and up until this year CBP carried H&K .40.

    10mm is another story.
     
    cricketdave likes this.
  3. madcap_magician

    madcap_magician Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Feb 27, 2005
    I don't have a dinosaur in this orgy, but I just realized that the .32 H&R Professional from Charter Arms... arguably looks better than the new .357 Magnum King Cobra from Colt.

    Sad!
     
  4. leghog

    leghog

    Aug 10, 2013
    I truly don't care what you believe. From 1995-1998 alone I was shooting about 10K cartridges a year in just .45 ACP not including other pistol cartridges. Over the ~10 years I owned a PPK/S I shot ~5K cartridges from it. Doesn't take a rich man.

    I buy bullets for centerfire pistols 5K at a time.
    [​IMG]

    LCP isn't a PPK. Rake of the grip isn't the same nor is the center bore line from the strong arm's forearm. Again, perceived recoil has much to do with firearm design and not just the cartridge.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  5. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja

    496
    Dec 19, 2018
    You are right.
    The LCP is smaller, and has more recoil than the ppk.
    The LCP has a crazy thin guide rod and a recoil spring that belongs in a bic pen.

    I don't own a ppk .380, but I have shot a few of them, and almost bought one last month. Nice guns, overpriced for what they are, but Bond, James Bond.

    They are snappy, but not in the same ballpark as a J frame with .38+p, much less .357 rounds.
     
  6. leghog

    leghog

    Aug 10, 2013
    The M36 snub I just sold was an easy gun to handle with the right grips.
     
  7. Boxer .45

    Boxer .45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 11, 2015
    .....and recoil, because you can get back on target faster for follow up shots.
     
  8. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja

    496
    Dec 19, 2018
    Standard rounds..maybe.
    Not with the 9mm+p that law enforcement use today.

    Shoot some .40 rounds, then pop through a dozen or so hot 9mm+p rounds and see what you think.

    This myth came about as an added reason to convince LEO brass to switch back to 9mm.
     
  9. Boxer .45

    Boxer .45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 11, 2015
    Well that may be closer to true when comparing those two. Still easier to taylor loads when talking recoil since several standard loads perform outstandingly well.

    Why would they care to convince them to go back to 9mm? Gun makers make both, ammo makers make both, same money in production and ammo makers would stand to make more money.

    I use standard 9mm defense loads. I trust them as well as anything. Not that what the FBI carries or any PD for that matter.
     
  10. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja

    496
    Dec 19, 2018
    LEOs like 9mm. They can carry more rounds in the mag, and on their belts, but the standard ammo at the time wasn't powerful enough to penetrate car doors and such, and many LEO still carried .38 revolvers
    In a nutshell:
    S&W developed the .40 specifically for Law Enforcement, based on a reduced velocity 10mm round.
    At the time, the .40 was designed as a replacement to the .38 special revolver.

    The .40 is a shortened 10mm shoved in a retrofitted 9mm frame gun.
    However this all came about right . before the AWB of 1994 when magazines were limited to 10 rounds.

    By the time the AWB expired departments had switched to the .40, but advances in ammo gave the new 9mm rounds almost identical performance with higher capacity, and departments switched to 9mm because you can fit more rounds in the same size gun.....which most LEO carry today.

    I personally like the .40.
    While 9mm can come close, a heavier chunk of lead flying downrage does still have advantages especially when the target is behind cover.
    ;)
     
  11. Scott321

    Scott321

    805
    Jul 20, 2016
    Just some alternative ideas on many of the posts here... I can't vouch for the credibility or sources on some of the following, but something to think about...

    1. IIRC, the PPK is a blowback operated gun. I never fired one, but I did fire a rental Sig P232 20+ years ago (also blowback). The P232 was pretty heavy for it's size, and the kick was more than some steel 'compact' 9mm's I rented, e.g. the S&W 3913. The Colt Mustang's kick was significantly lighter with the same 380 ammo, and can only assume it was related to the locked breech design (again, these were rental guns and my experience was 20+ years ago).

    2. If you search around long enough, there's a forum I came across long ago where one of the members claimed they were part of the FBI's testing protocol on the 10mm. IIRC, he wrote that they never fired the full power 10mm loads, and just told Federal what they wanted the ammunition to be, and that low powered round was the only round the agents ever fired. This idea goes against the internet rumors of smaller stature FBI agents complaining about the power of the round... BTW, I am a 10mm fan.

    3. Also, searching around different forums, I came across posts from members who claimed they were armorers for different police departments. They stated that the 40 S&W's were beating up the pistols, were threatened by a certain manufacturer if they were to discuss this issue, and suggested that 1. any 40 should have it's recoil spring changed every 2-3k round to minimize abuse 2. manufacturers should use the slides more in line with their 45 offerings (weight wise) in their 40 pistols. They also claimed that the FBI's 40 S&W ammo were special orders with downloaded 40 ammo (compared to most off the shelf options). If this is true, it makes more sense why the agencies switched to higher pressure 9mm... plus bullet tech.

    I'll add, that I have fired Fed HST and Win PDX-1 9mm +p 124gr, and Rem HTP +p 115gr through my CM9, and they kick a LOT less than 40 S&W AE 180gr FMJ or Hornady 165gr CD from my CW40.
     
    Bad Ninja likes this.
  12. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja

    496
    Dec 19, 2018
    I upgrade the recoil spring and switched to a custom stainless guide rod in my Sigma 40VE, changed the trigger springs, stoned the internal parts, and mirror polished the sear.
    I shoot mostly handloads, or Speer lawman ammo when plinking steel.
    It shoots like a frickin' laser now.

    A 10mm is on my "to do" list.
    ;)
     
  13. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    There is a whole lot of nonsense in this thread and, some pearls of wisdom.

    While the pistol in question certainly looks nice, it's not my 'cup of tea'. I have a Ruger Single Action in 327 Federal Magnum and will buy an SP101 or GP100 at some point. The Henry Rifle in 327 or 357 is likely going to be an addition as well.

    Why? I need adequate penetration to reach the vitals without the excessive recoil and muzzle blast. Dead is dead and my main 'threats' are dangerous dogs and feral hogs. If I stumble onto some Meth zombie cooker out in the country where I live who won't let me leave unharmed, a 327 Federal Magnum out of a pistol or rifle is more than enough to let me live to see another sunrise.

    Now add some practicality, in general, they are lighter weight and smaller which means they are more apt to be carried when an unplanned need presents itself. While I don't have the range of my AR-15, I also don't have to worry about a shot that travels beyond my eyesight hitting someone or something, at least not nearly as much as I'm not a 'perfect' shot and doubt I will do even better under severe stress.

    If you have never shot a 'snubbie magnum' or rifle inside a house, you are in for a very rude awakening. Even with hearing protection in my case, both are pretty unpleasant. It's hard for me to imagine what it would be like in a car, though if it came to that I would expect to end up with permanent hearing damage if not total deafness.

    Having a handgun and rifle in the same caliber is really a different conversation but, I really like the 327 Federal Magnum as a handgun cartridge so, that makes the 327 Henry Rifle an easier choice.
     
  14. JohnWE

    JohnWE Basic Member Basic Member

    762
    Dec 7, 2013
    That's only perceived deafness...
     
  15. Sid Post

    Sid Post

    Oct 14, 1998
    Science says otherwise.
    https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/noise-induced-hearing-loss

    Ask almost any long term hunter, police officer or, soldier about Tinnitus and hearing loss in general. Tinnitus may not be total deafness but, it is real and affects my life directly. Scoff at me if you want but, when the ringing doesn't stop, you are effectively deaf when interacting with some people and some sounds.

    Noise injury is real whether you believe it or not. Don't believe me, ask yourself why hearing protection is sold anywhere firearms are sold.
    ;)

    In large cities, ask your local 'community officer' why police officers go on PERMANENT DISABILITY after some shootings due to hearing loss.

    Personal opinions of the hunters I knew as a kid have been disproven as older men who are very hard of hearing.

    And yes, I have personal experience shooting in a house, not in car, and against other hard surfaces. I don't shoot a 10.5" AR-15 anymore due to severe muzzle blast even with plugs and muffs.

    Science doesn't lie, it isn't temporary 'perceived' hearing loss, IT IS PERMANENT.
     
  16. JohnWE

    JohnWE Basic Member Basic Member

    762
    Dec 7, 2013
    Apparently you didn't read most of the thread.
     
    Bigfattyt likes this.
  17. SherlockT

    SherlockT Gold Member Gold Member

    92
    Feb 19, 2019
    +10 points for sarcasm.
     
    Bigfattyt likes this.
  18. Charlie_K

    Charlie_K

    Jul 16, 2012
    Bigfattyt likes this.
  19. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Now I will start by saying I didn't read every word in this thread ... but there is a whole lot of complete BS and misinformation flying around to say the least ...

    not going to get into which caliber does A. best or is worse than B.

    but I will say every caliber can and will vary GREATLY depending on what gun you fire it from ... from type of gun to weight of gun to how high your grip is allowed to be by the ergos of the gun ...

    now saying if you can't handle a .357 magnum don't carry ? ... well that's about as ignorant of a statement as I've read recently ...

    and if you think that there aren't just as many deaths from a 22 rimfire as a 357 magnum ... you may want to read alot more research ...

    and without diving into the muck with some folks I'll say this ...

    if you wish to exercise your right to carry experiment a bit and find not only a caliber but a gun that you shoot well ... and is accurate and ultra reliable ... and carry it ... to hell with what anyone else thinks you should or shouldn't carry.

    What I like and am comfortable shooting should have absolutely no bearing on what anyone else shoots or carries ...

    from the "posts that make you shake your head in pity" ...

    oh and the 327 magnum is a nice cartridge ... and plenty capable of self defense against two legged predetors ... (the worst of all predetors) ... as long as you get comfortable carrying and shooting it ... and you make sure you put plenty of the ammo you plan to carry in it down range to make sure it is a reliable firearm for you ... then carry it with pride!

    oh a quick P.S. I don't recommend firing any firearm inside a car or small space without real good hearing protection unless it is unavoidable ... or reading this will be more of your time than conversations ...
     
  20. leghog

    leghog

    Aug 10, 2013
    You should look into what perceived recoil is. It's not a term I made up. And it is used in firearm design. Educate yourself.
     

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