Not a flat line anywhere.......

HTMD

HTMD

Joined
Feb 15, 2002
Messages
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Caveat: Not everybody will agree with my take on this. That's fine. It takes all types (of knife designs) to make the world go 'round.

Here we go: I've heard others say, and I've said it too, that of the various design elements that contribute to the 'beauty' of any given knife the most influential one is "not a straight line anywhere." The image below is of a knife my wife purchased at the recent PKA (Professional Knifemakers Association) show in Denver. she asked me to photograph it for her and send a copy to the maker, Mike Mooney. In studying the photograph I realized Mike's knife is a perfect example of the old rule of thumb mentioned above.

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I've decided to modify slightly the way I'll say it in the future: "Not a flat line anywhere." Because, if you look at a short enough segment of any line on a knife, it will be straight. Flat implies to me the dominant vector of the line. One might say such and such a knife has a straight spine, meaning it's predominantly flat. Flat to me is not attractive.

Regarding the knife above, one might say the plunge cut is straight. It is, but only on one plane so to speak. It curves and opens up beautifully down onto the blade proper and it angles off up toward the spine - so it isn't really straight. More importantly it isn't flat
 
I am in total agreement with you about the lines Buddy. I think it is the element that gives a knife the "total package "look I often refer to on the forum.
Mike Mooney has that ability in him to convey the knifes feeling to an observer.
I was waiting for about nine months for Mike to make me a giraffe boned fighter similar to the one shown on his website for which he won "Best Fixed Blade' at the Southern California Blades Knife Expo in 2003. I spoke to him at the AZ Knife Collectors Show in Mesa and saw the blade shown below. I had to get it and put the other knife on the delayed list. This Fighter has a 7" S30V blade with a sharpened top clip. The handle, with nickel silver fittings, has a true presentation grade piece of Ironwood burl that fits the hand as if it were made from a mold.
Mike's a real artist and Master Smith. I plan to get many Moonblades for my collection as I have not seen any of his knives I haven't admired. His kitchen cutlery set (see 2004 PKA Show Best Kitchen Cutlery Set) in Mesquite wood is a real jawdropper, look and feel. I am drooling....




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I don't agree with those that say that a knife can not have straight lines and look good. I have seen knives with straight lines that I think look great.
 
I think some designs are too straight (flat), and that can distract from the profile of the knife. But, Don allowed the spine of my Hanson hunter to be a little 'flat', and the overall profile sure works for me.


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Craig Camerer seems to be getting away from straight on a lot of his recent fixed blades, and I am really liking what I see out of him this year. Curves are good. Still, a little flat can be worked in the picture with much success, IMO. :thumbup:
 
Even the spine on Don's knife is slightly droped torward the clip. It is barely visible , but it's there. Keith, there always +'s, -'s in everything. Ofcourse there are pieces that look good with stright lines. But evenin these, there is usually a blending of planes, and or angles, that give a finished look. If I may, since the maker apparently isn't making any more. I would like to direct you to cratique knives by Jack Crain. Everything was stright. Even the choiles on the ricasso's. More than one has remarked that his blades looked spamped out, with a very factory look to them. Just one example of where blending of the lines would have gone a long way. Another Biggie is the Loveless Big Bear. So many have tried to copy it. Just about no one has pulled it off properly. One of the bigest reason, is that the pic's make it look like it has stright lines. There isn't a stright line on the knife other than the guard face, and joint where it meets the handle. And even that is at an angle. The center line isn't stright, the spine, the the grip, or even the edge, or clip. It just looks that way. The mark of great design. Mike
 
Not to belabor the point but... This weekend at the ABS Mid-America Hammer-in & Knife show I heard a couple of comments from different demonstrators related to the topic at hand.
"There are no straight lines in nature."
"A curving line is beautiful but the suggestion of a curve is even more beautiful."

... both quotes attributed to Bill Moran.
 
"There are no straight lines in nature."
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Buddy - with all due respect that's one of those oft repeated old saws that doesn't stand up to the light of day so to speak - there are plenty of straight lines in nature including crystals and rock fractures, etc. (take a look at Devils Tower, WY for plenty of straight lines (and curved ones too..:rolleyes: )

While in general I agree that curves or the suggestion of curves are often more pleasing to the eye, IMO it's really a matter of the overall construction values - for instance look at a well built guitar or violin - plenty of wonderful curves but the side of the neck is (or better be anyway) a nice straight line......

as alway other's mileage will vary.........
 
Good point, Chuck. And that's why I figured for myself at least, it isn't so much straight lines I find unattractive, but rather what I call 'flat' lines - meaning lines with no life in them, lines that aren't going anywhere, lines that don't contribute to what some folks call 'flow.'

In fact, here are a couple of knives I happen to love that feature straight lines. But they are lines that move and flow. Someone said flow moves from the butt or pommel out the tip and while that may not say it all, it says a good deal about pleasing design in a knife. And, of course gratutious curves can certainly be just as ugly as flat lines that go nowhere.

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But Chuck, can we agree on this? "There are no straight lines in the space/time continuum." ;)
 
I have very good eye sight, and an eye for detail, but I be darned if I can find the stright lines on these two knives. Mike
 
Wow. You guys are right! I didn't see it at first when I was quickly scanning all my pictures to find straight line examples but I got both knives out and here's what I found:

The Keeslar blade begins a very subtle de-curve 1 inch beyond the guard and becoming slightly more acute 1 inch from the tip.

The Fisk knife is very interesting because from the guard to within 3 inches of the tip the line is dead straight but 3 inches from the tip it begins to decurve ever so slightly so the the tip has dropped barely 1/32th of an inch by the time it reaches the tip and the curve is even over it's span. The Keeslar blade drops what I would call a 'fat eighth' of an inch, mostly in the last inch, inch and a half - making it a bit more visible (a decreasing radius curve). Jerry Fisk's use of the "suggestion of a curve" is sublime. Guess the guy really does deserve his reputation!

Anyway, what can I say - I guess it proves the point! Or maybe not... Any other thoughts? Please post pictures of dead straight lines in knives (OK - might as well say this now - other than daggers). There has got to be a beautiful and functional knife somewhere with a prominent straight line featured in its design.
 
Just realized, what I'm saying is I don't have any knives or blades of any type (other than dagger like pieces) that are any straighter than these two. This is as straight as it gets - and yet it's not straight.
 
Devil's Tower, WY (not my picture - found it floating around on the net - it's an infrared shot)

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HTMD said:
There has got to be a beautiful and functional knife somewhere with a prominent straight line featured in its design.
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I *think* I have just such a knife in my own collection. Later tonight, I'll give it a go. I needed to shoot it anyway..... :)

Coop
 
Well I think the point has been made. Now people are looking for an example. If you have to search just to find an example, well. Enough said. A friend visiting today, said straight razor. There you go a Straight knife. Although I've never seen a straight razor without a curved handle to set off the sterile lines. Mike
 
Coop - in my archives I have one of your images featuring 3 Hill Pearce knives. One of them looks to be straight across the top. I didn't feel I had a right to post it here but I wonder if that's the one you're thinking of. Beautiful knife, of course. Will await your 'surprise' picture. :)
 
Not that this was a contest, but I would have sworn I had some dead straight lines in this. As I looked closer, they are 'suggestive' of a straight line or 'suggestive' of a curve.

Maybe that's why I like it so. ;)

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This gave me my opportunity to do my 'thang'. Wicked, huh? :eek:

Coop
 
I find just the opposite, more and more makers are adding too many curves, or too much of a curve on top of the blade.
 
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