"Old Knives"

[Jack Black]

Me, too!
I appreciate the research, Jack.

You're welcome Rachel, some more info

The Sheffield Directory of 1828 lists Robert Bunting, pen and pocket knife manufacturer on Regent Street, records the firm as R. Bunting.

The Sheffield and Rotherham Directory of 1841 lists Robert Bunting & Son, manufacturer of pen, pocket, fine spring, lock, and sneck knives, and table cutlery at 10 Regent Street, Sheffield, but lists Richard Bunting, manufacturer of penknives, etc at 27 Regent Street, making clear the works is at no 10. I wonder if Richard Bunting also owned a beerhouse, as a Richard Bunting is listed as owning one very closeby (Edit - different chap).

Bunting Folding Bowie with R.Bunting & Sons mark: http://svalbardrepublic.org/ebay/buntingfoldbowie0813.htm

Bunting Folding Dirk:



1839 Advert:

Bunting Pocket Knife purportedly owned by Confederate Captain Frank Gurley Hall Snr :
https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...ns-sheffield-pocket-knife-with-family-history Mark is 'R. Bunting & Son'.

Bunting dagger:

Bunting Bowies:

Lots more online

 

[Jack Black]

The 1841 Sheffield Census records, living at Regent Street, Richard, aged 35, Robert, aged 60, Robert (Jnr) aged 25, Ruth, aged 35 (wife of Richard), Amelia, aged 6 (daughter of Richard and Ruth)), Ellen, aged 5 months (daughter of Richard and Ruth), Hannah, aged 60 (wife of Robert), Henry, aged 10, and Mary, aged 9 (daughter of Richard and Ruth).

 

[waynorth]

Nice big family!! Great data find, Jack. Nice story developing behind a special little knife!

 

[Jack Black]

Nice big family!! Great data find, Jack. Nice story developing behind a special little knife!

Thanks Charlie, I know the streets where their various works, and the streets where they lived, very well. They're all very close to where I lived, when I lived in Sheffield. That was a nice gift my friend, certainly Golden Age

 

[veitsi_poika]

Here's an oldie I picked up not long ago.
It is an old lockback that appears top be marked ZIRIAX on the face of the blade. I can only see the top of the name because the rest has come off. It's 5 1/2" closed and the steel ground nicely. All of the hardware is iron I think and the handles are ebony or some other dark wood. I also found an old 1887 Albany NY directory and on page 267 there is a JM Ziriak list as a cutler and surgical instrument maker. On the back side of the knife the handle the date 1877 is scratched crudely in it.

https://books.google.com/books?id=tR1EAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA282&lpg=PA282&dq=j+m+ziriax+albany&source=bl&ots=TkqI2LALeF&sig=_lyfxlux5MNcRzfUA9EfPY_6O3w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMs_78vMLYAhUD2IMKHbICByUQ6AEIMjAC#v=onepage&q=j m ziriax albany&f=falseView attachment 863117 View attachment 863118 View attachment 863119

Looks like you have the real deal there Mike, the 1877 matches up with the information I found. John M Ziriax was first listed as a Machinist in Albany, NY in 1861. In 1874 he was listed as a Machinist / Cutler / Truss Maker and from 1875 to his death in 1889 he was listed under the "Cutlers and Surgical Instruments". I really do not think he was a mass producer of knives by any means so your knife is likely extremely rare. It seems like he was just a guy that was a machinist / metal worker during the day and a knife maker on the side. The interesting thing that I found is that his son, Louis Ziriax, was born in Germany around 1860 so I believe John brought his family to the U.S. in the early 1860's from Germany which may explain his talent for knife making. Louis took over the business likely after his father's death in 1889 as he was listed as a cutler in the Albany, NY directory in 1896. One cool tidbit I found was that Louis actually obtained a patent for a new type of gasoline engine in 1897, the image I found is shown below. I noticed in 1900 & 1901, Louis' name was followed by "Engineer" in the Albany directory however in 1903 his name was followed by "Machinist". Louis died in a car crash in 1905 at the age of 44 or 45.

I'm curious if John M or J.M. Ziriax was a worker at one of the knife makers in Germany or if he had his own business there but my access to German information is limited. I was wondering if someone that has German knife information could take a look and see if they notice the name Ziriax.



- Kevin

 

[r8shell]

The 1841 Sheffield Census records, living at Regent Street, Richard, aged 35, Robert, aged 60, Robert (Jnr) aged 25, Ruth, aged 35 (wife of Richard), Amelia, aged 6 (daughter of Richard and Ruth)), Ellen, aged 5 months (daughter of Richard and Ruth), Hannah, aged 60 (wife of Robert), Henry, aged 10, and Mary, aged 9 (daughter of Richard and Ruth).

Thanks Charlie, I know the streets where their various works, and the streets where they lived, very well. They're all very close to where I lived, when I lived in Sheffield. That was a nice gift my friend, certainly Golden Age

A nice gift, indeed. Your input about its history is a gift as well.

 

[galvanic1882]

Wow VP thanks for finding all that out!! I wonder if he was the maker of it?

 

[veitsi_poika]

Wow VP thanks for finding all that out!! I wonder if he was the maker of it?

I found other knives where people mentioned JM Ziriax was stamped on the blade and yours probably had that full JM Ziriax stamp at one point. Pics of one I found online are below. The address that was listed in the directory was 385 S Pearl St in Albany and that was listed as his home and there was no business address ever listed. Based on that I'm assuming he did not have an actual store / shop to sell knives so I doubt he was selling SFO knives. Sounds to me like he just worked out of a machine shop in his building. I'll do a little more searching to see if I can out more about his business / products.



- Kevin

Edited: Added some info

 

[veitsi_poika]

Here's a neat little Henckel's pocket treasure I couldn't resist buying when I was trolling on The Bay the other night...



- Kevin

 

[North Shore]

Third Nor'eastern in Massachusetts in 10 days... McIntosh Heather Cleveland Jack in old ebony. Thistle reverse tang stamp, mercury dime found metal detecting.

 

[CNoyes]

You guys have posted some super knives and great information here lately.

I got this big 4 1/4” Terrier 037622 cigar jack off Ebay on the 1st of March. It’s been in my pocket since I received it.

Killer snap in both directions on both blades with half stops on each. About ten percent wear on the master, none on the pen.

Great bone front and back.

Knife dates 1910 to 1916.

One of Robeson’s best.

 

[ea42]

Charlie that knife is in amazing condition, I love the terrier stamp!

Northshore and Kevin those are great examples, never heard of McIntosh Knives before.

Eric

 

[Campbellclanman]

Agreed Eric - nice Knives guys.

Herder- What a nice Tear Drop Ebony Jack! Awesome.

Charlie N, once again a nice Terrier- the Bone looks slightly different colour wise/ Jig Wise than the ( fantastic usual) Bone from Robesons era? Gorgeous Knife!

 

[CNoyes]

Duncan, the photos were made in poor light, but the handles are lighter than on most older Robeson knives. I think it might be a bit sun bleached, but it's pretty much the same on both sides.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Thank you Charlie
Hey don’t get me wrong- Stunning Knife my friend- I’m trying to study Bone- the Jig Work and hoping to one day crack the secret of jig work - especially some reference one the “ how to’s “ of spotting hand Jigging etc.
My comment on the Bone was purely in that basis of comparison- a Beautiful Knife and as you have taught us before - stamped with only a very short time of manufacture.
I hope to one day stumble across such a Knife!

 

[ea42]

Say folks, I didn't realize there were a couple of questions regarding that Ulster sleeveboard;

What is the closed length on this one Eric?

- Kevin

Kevin, closed length is 3 5/8"

What an Ulster! That blade combination is unusual, I've never seen a sleeveboard whittler with a punch. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like the secondary blade is glaze finished while the master is crocus. Is that correct?

Yes that is correct. Here's one more shot from the top:



And here's a nice little Ellenville Knife Co. quill knife. They were the precursors to Ulster Knife. Started by some townsfolk and a bunch of cutlers and master knife makers from Naugatuck, Conn, they functioned under that name from 1871 to 1875. The name was changed to Ulster Knife Co in 1875, then in 1876 Dwight Divine took over ownership and continued business until 1941, when his son sold to Imperial Schrade.



Eric

 

[veitsi_poika]

This one isn't all that old but it looks like it's from around 1965... very minty with "genuine Cabone handles"



Found some ads in the 1965 Camillus catalog where the etch says "PAT APPL'D" like mine.



- Kevin

 

[black mamba]

That's a beauty, Kevin, I'm envious!

 

[Holdiedad]

Mike I was not really referring to Mint old knives,just ones in good condition,not refurbed
A guy once told me,"the good thing about vintage knives is that most are used,so using them a bit will not really hurt thier value" I don't know how true that is,but just think about that
An older knife dealer told me,before the days of the internet,one could go to a show & see plenty & reasonable
But via the internet,collectors have "gobbled" up a lot,and now there is fewer
And,to go on some auction sites,bidders who really do not know what they are bidding on (that could be me,lol) kinda drive up prices
I certainly am no authority on this,I look & listen.But I certainly am in awe of some knives I see , with a little common knowledge of thier condition and current value,it just amazes me
The current issue of Knife World (Thanks Mike & Tony for the intro)has some gorgeous Case knives in there.
I just gotta hand it to serious collectors of the old knives.It's like an elite division of knife lovers
-Vince

I'm a newbie to knife collecting other than case knives my grandpa gave me 2-3 a year and I always would save my money until we went to co-op or hardware store and buy another one never thinking about value. I'm 47 and did that close to 30 years. In 2005 a good friends father in law passed and he had owned a hardware store for many years starting in the mid 60's and he was a case dealer and he had what I guess you would call sample cases of each knife available that year or maybe just the new ones cause most had 20-30 knives in them with the boxes by that time I had given it all to my son who was 5 even though he couldn't get them and play with them we would spend hours looking and unboxing the knives until he could about name every style so he started collecting for value and trading and now he's over 500 case knives from the 60's to 2017 I think he has every fixed blade they made from 1960 till 2000. Now he and I both have caught the custom knife bug we are so new we have to ask people we know for help on what to buy he really loves homemade as do I that is why I joined today I have read for weeks but thought I'd jumb in feet first and get to know people and try start understanding the new knife scene.

 

[Old Engineer]

I'm a newbie to knife collecting other than case knives my grandpa gave me 2-3 a year and I always would save my money until we went to co-op or hardware store and buy another one never thinking about value. I'm 47 and did that close to 30 years. In 2005 a good friends father in law passed and he had owned a hardware store for many years starting in the mid 60's and he was a case dealer and he had what I guess you would call sample cases of each knife available that year or maybe just the new ones cause most had 20-30 knives in them with the boxes by that time I had given it all to my son who was 5 even though he couldn't get them and play with them we would spend hours looking and unboxing the knives until he could about name every style so he started collecting for value and trading and now he's over 500 case knives from the 60's to 2017 I think he has every fixed blade they made from 1960 till 2000. Now he and I both have caught the custom knife bug we are so new we have to ask people we know for help on what to buy he really loves homemade as do I that is why I joined today I have read for weeks but thought I'd jumb in feet first and get to know people and try start understanding the new knife scene.

Welcome to the Forums Sir !!!! It is good to have you with us . Pull up a seat on the Porch and enjoy yourself .
I do not think of this place as a new knife scene but a scene where there are Traditionals liked and shown , both new and old .

Harry