"Paypal add 3%"

[Cougar Allen]

This time around the discussion is even more confused than usual. Most of the ranting in this thread doesn't seem to have any obvious relationship to the facts. Just so we all know what we're arguing about:

The PayPal contract isn't any different from most credit/debit card companies. (IMHO PayPal is really a niche credit/debit card fulfillment company, marketing primarily to internet sellers who don't do enough selling to set up for other ways to take credit/debit cards.)

The contract says you can't charge a customer extra for using PayPal. Whether you call that a surcharge for PayPal or a discount for another payment method makes no difference; the contract specifically prohibits both. (The idea is if a seller can take credit/debit cards he'll do so much more business that he'll come out ahead even after paying the fees. That apparently works for most businesses, since most businesses do accept credit/debit cards.)

PayPal attempts to enforce its contract by refusing to do any more business with people they catch violating it.

Some states have given that clause the force of law; most have not. (If you're doing enough business through PayPal to make legal costs affordable for them that might possibly be relevant. I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.)

Those are the facts (except for the parts in parentheses). Now that we all know what we're arguing about maybe we can argue more coherently.

Is that clause an outrage? Is it illegal, immoral, unethical, contrary to the Code of Hammarabi, Ten Commandments, Magna Carta, Constitution of the United States of America, etc?

Or is violating that clause an outrage, illegal, immoral, unethical, contrary to the Code of Hammarabi, Ten Commandments, Magna Carta, Constitution of the United States of America, etc?

Those are things we can argue about.

 

[hardheart]

The paypal fee is deducted from the assets being transferred to the seller, which always come from the buyer. So the buyer pays the fee 100% of the time, irrespective of whether the seller states it that way or not.

Uh, no. You can send $100 to the seller, and he ends up with $97 in his account, or you can send $103 to the seller, and he ends up with $100 in his account. Sure, the buyer always pays the money, that's glaringly obvious and inherent to transactions, but the amounts differ.

What I don't get is why you said bumping the price by 10% and not charging fees was the same thing. It isn't the same, then the buyer is sending $110, and you're getting $106.70 in your account. Paying fees is now a reason to increase your net on the sale.

 

[SharpByCoop]

My take: A private transaction on a forum is always better received when the 'fine print' is removed. Keeping the transaction very simple is a key ingredient to a quick sale.

Quick sale = Value to me. Worth a small 'reduction' in extra fees.

No reduction necessary if the price(s) is/are built in.

Example of busy transaction:
Quality Knife: $200 plus 3.9% if paying with Paypal or USPS M.O. only. Plus Shipping (costs vary.) Conus only.

And then after a few days of no interest and tire kicking the same knife is reduced to $180 (a 20% reduction....)

My transaction:
Quality knife: $210 delivered to your door, includes shipping in the US. PayPal preferred or USPS M.O. No PayPal fees charged.

I'll bet a gazillion dollars my listing will sell at a cost of $12 to me vs the rollback of $20 on the first listing after it doesn't move.

Yes, it's always a gamble, but human nature and the internet has generalities that are consistent.

PP vs USPS M.O: Not leaving my home to drive to the Post office or bank = Value to me.

YMMV.

Coop

 

[braillediver]

What Coop said +1

 

[IamMatt]

i see in some for sale threads people stating,when using pp,use the gift option or only from a pp account or credit card,where there is no pp fee.can someone explain this.

Unless it has changed, PayPal does not charge the receiver a fee if the funds come from the balance already in the sender's PayPal account, or are funded directly from a linked bank account like a checking account, but they DO charge the receiver a fee if the sender funds his purchase from a credit card. To complicate matters, PayPal has Personal and Premium accounts. Premium accounts always charge a fee to the receiver, while Personal accounts provide the option I described above.

I have not sold much using PayPal lately, but that's how things used to be. As a seller, I would prefer that a buyer paying with PayPal fund their purchase either from a linked checking account or from funds already in their PayPal account so that I can receive the funds in my Personal PayPal account and not get dinged the 3+% fee.

Folks who sell stuff on PayPal more recently may correct me if tings are no longer as I describe.

 

[Knife Outlet]

I don't know who the receiver is but the buyer is never charged anything by Paypal. The seller is charged a fee regardless of where the funds come from on the buyers side.

It is very amateurish to advertise added charges to a product for sale. A smart merchant just makes sure the selling price has enough in it to cover everything. Added fees are a negative and negatives have no place in advertising. The people with these added charges will sell more if they get rid of them and simply add the 3% or whatever to the selling price.

 

[hardheart]

no fees if the personal tab is used and the funds are coming from bank account or existing paypal balance.

 

[Dan Seaver]

i try to report the people to paypal that pass the 3% along to me as it is explicitly against paypal rules.

Good way to get an honest man's bank accounts frozen right there. Paypal doesn't just give you a slap on the wrist; if they want to they can freeze all of your funds in your paypal account and in your bank for 180 days! On account of all business owners and my business I ask that you think about what your doing before you continue down the same path. Thanks.


In order to avoid issues with paypal I charge a 2% handling fee for any payment method; gas costs money so even checks and money orders cost me money to accept.

 

[Josh K]

Good way to get an honest man's bank accounts frozen right there. Paypal doesn't just give you a slap on the wrist; if they want to they can freeze all of your funds in your paypal account and in your bank for 180 days! On account of all business owners and my business I ask that you think about what your doing before you continue down the same path. Thanks.


In order to avoid issues with paypal I charge a 2% handling fee for any payment method; gas costs money so even checks and money orders cost me money to accept.

That's because Paypal isn't a bank. They can take your money and there really isn't anything you can do about it.

The paypal fee is deducted from the assets being transferred to the seller, which always come from the buyer. So the buyer pays the fee 100% of the time, irrespective of whether the seller states it that way or not.

Technically it's the buyers money that pays the fees, but it comes out of the sellers pocket at the time of sale.

What bugs me more is when I see PP +5% or more. It's ridiculous. As a seller you have the option to accept many forms of payment. The fees you pay to paypal are because you're too lazy to setup a Debit / Credit card terminal.

Sellers should pay the fees.

 

[Mike G]

Folks, seems like a no brainer to me.

If you wish to accept Paypal, follow their TOS. If not, find another alternative.

Merchants who accept Visa, Mastercard, Discover, ect are prohibited from charging fees; Paypal is no different. That is how they stay in business. if you don't want to follow Paypal's TOS, and give your customers an easy way to pay, then don't.

If you charge a fee to your buyer for using Paypal, and Paypal freezes your account for TOS violation, then it is your fault, not the person who reported you.

 

[Steel Dragon]

That's because Paypal isn't a bank. They can take your money and there really isn't anything you can do about it.

Exactly.
I would never link my primary bank account or leave any real balance in it.

 

[severedthumbs]

Good way to get an honest man's bank accounts frozen right there. Paypal doesn't just give you a slap on the wrist; if they want to they can freeze all of your funds in your paypal account and in your bank for 180 days! On account of all business owners and my business I ask that you think about what your doing before you continue down the same path. Thanks.


In order to avoid issues with paypal I charge a 2% handling fee for any payment method; gas costs money so even checks and money orders cost me money to accept.

one more off the list, 2% for me to pay you? what a scam.

if you dont like paypal rules then dont use them, its that simple.

 

[CarlBagget]

one more off the list, 2% for me to pay you? what a scam.

if you dont like paypal rules then dont use them, its that simple.

Are you calling Mr. Seaver a scam artist / thief for adding a 2% handling fee?
That is a pretty hateful statement for someone that hasn't purchased from him or knows complete details of one of his transactions.
A scam is an attempt to defraud someone. His fee is stated.

The word is " don't " with the apostrophe.

 

[severedthumbs]

Are you calling Mr. Seaver a scam artist / thief for adding a 2% handling fee?
That is a pretty hateful statement for someone that hasn't purchased from him or knows complete details of one of his transactions.
A scam is an attempt to defraud someone. His fee is stated.

The word is " don't " with the apostrophe.

I dont bother with " ' " on the internets. lol at the grammar police

no I am saying to charge for shipping is one thing but to charge me 2% just so I can pay you is a scam.

 

[Josh K]

I don't bother with " ' " on the internets. Lol at the grammar police

No, I am saying to charge for shipping is one thing. but To charge me 2% just so I can pay you is a scam.

Well it seems that credit card companies, Paypal, Western Union, and the USPS are all running "scams."

 

[Bastid]

I hate paypal and have my reasons. It is great if everyone is being honest, but they are a royal pain in the bohunkus if there is fraud going on. Their first move for me was to do nothing and allow the fraud to continue until the crook had grossed almost 1 million. When the FBI got involved paypal started to cooporate.

But scam not by any reasonable definition I have read. If the seller is saying up front pay whatever extra if you use such and such methods how is that a "scam"?

B T W. I agee with Coop. In the last 6 months I guess I have sold 15 to 20k worth of knives here (about 10 or 12 knives in total) all were paid by check except for a wire transfer from Hong Kong. There were no issues, none were paid for via pay-pal.

 

[Bastid]

I hate paypal and have my reasons. It is great if everyone is being honest, but they are a royal pain in the bohunkus if there is fraud going on. Their first move for me was to do nothing and allow the fraud to continue until the crook had grossed almost 1 million. When the FBI got involved paypal started to cooporate.

But scam not by any reasonable definition I have read. If the seller is saying up front pay whatever extra if you use such and such methods how is that a "scam"?

B T W. I agee with Coop. In the last 6 months I guess I have sold 15 to 20k worth of knives here (about 10 or 12 knives in total) all were paid by check except for a wire transfer from Hong Kong. There were no issues, none were paid for via pay-pal.

 

[Dan Seaver]

one more off the list, 2% for me to pay you? what a scam.

if you dont like paypal rules then dont use them, its that simple.

Well you could also pay me in person but I would have to charge over 8% for NY state sales tax. I run a business that is my sole income and can not afford to loose money when I'm already selling my product at far less than is considered fair. I also charge a lower percentage for returning customers and larger orders.

Also that 2% is far less than if I added on the hours I spend shipping, emailing, and making calls.

 

[severedthumbs]

Well you could also pay me in person but I would have to charge over 8% for NY state sales tax. I run a business that is my sole income and can not afford to loose money when I'm already selling my product at far less than is considered fair. I also charge a lower percentage for returning customers and larger orders.

perhaps you should reevaluate your prices. idk your business or your knives, but if 2% is gonna put you in the red well......pricing is not right.

Also that 2% is far less than if I added on the hours I spend shipping, emailing, and making calls.

see above. these costs should be factored into the final price of your knife. dont punish the buyer because you under price your knives.



once I ordered a knife, was quoted $1000. cool order placed, 18 months later get a call knife is ready, thats going to be $1075, whoaaaaa buddy, I was quoted $1000. well i need to charge 5% for this, and $25 for that, etc. No thanks maker, click. I hung u and will never order from him again. IDK if he sold the knife or for what $ if it was sold. if he would have been upfront with his hidden fees I wouldnt have ordered from him to begin with. we live and learn:thumbdn:

 

[Josh K]

Once I ordered a knife, was quoted $1000. Cool order placed, 18 months later get a call knife is ready. That's going to be $1075. Whoaaaaa buddy, I was quoted $1000. Well i need to charge 5% for this, and $25 for that, etc. No thanks maker, click. I hung up and will never order from him again. IDK if he sold the knife or for what $ if it was sold. if he would have been upfront with his hidden fees I wouldnt have ordered from him to begin with. we live and learn:thumbdn:

Wow. You sound like a dick. :thumbdn: