Phone call from Nepal. More bad news.

Beoram, after I posted I thought a little about moderation. Every belief system has the promise of great rewards, 'if only'...if only we'd let Capitalism go freely...And communism is another all or nothing system.

Rightly or naively, I've always believed communism must be endorsed by all the people and held absolutely. As you say, such is not true of socialism or capitalism. I suspect you're more liberal than I, would it surprise you to learn I do not trust the dream of unrestrained capitalism? What we have here is socialistic capitalism, with a good chunk of robber baron.

I wonder why so many psuedo communist revolutions have the word democracy in their banners, or is that answered by psuedo?

George Bush could not been an ideal represented figurehead any more than Gore could have been.

Beoram, what attention has India paid to the conflict in Nepal? She would have the largest vested interest.

munk
 
I'm hoping that both Nepal and US governments listen to what the US troops involved say and recommend. If that happens we'll be in good shape. If, as so often is the case, money and politics blind good advice and intentions then it's probably going to get little or no better and end up a waste of time and effort.

Tourism, trekking and climbing are at a 20 year low.
 
Tourism, trekking and climbing are at a 20 year low. Bill

Nepal could use some good old unrestrained capitalism about now.

How did it get this bad?

munk
 
This is really bad news. Hopefully at least a cease to all the fighting will come around.:(
 
Originally posted by munk
Beoram, after I posted I thought a little about moderation. Every belief system has the promise of great rewards, 'if only'...if only we'd let Capitalism go freely...And communism is another all or nothing system.
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Funny - I've always thought the opposite, or, rather, socialism/communism enforce 'morality', that is, they force people to pay decent wages, not hoard wealth and resources, &c.

Originally posted by munk
Rightly or naively, I've always believed communism must be endorsed by all the people and held absolutely. As you say, such is not true of socialism or capitalism. I suspect you're more liberal than I, would it surprise you to learn I do not trust the dream of unrestrained capitalism? What we have here is socialistic capitalism, with a good chunk of robber baron.
Click to expand...


Capitalism, both in its pure and adultered forms, leads to the poor getting poor and the rich getting richer - case in point, you have no money and need money to pay for shelter, I have money, so I lend you some, but charge you for the privelege, in addition to requiring you to return the money you borrowed. Net result? You now have less money and I now have more. Reason? Because you had less money and I had more - vicious cycle.

The 'robber baron' is a good point about where capitalism really falls down, especially in a modern consumer age - are companies like Microsoft, AOL rich because they make good products at a lower price? No, they make made products at higher prices and drive companies which make good products out of business. Anti-monopoly laws are supposed to stop robber barons, but obviously they only work so well.

Democratic capitalism ends up with control by large businesses, plain and simple. Who provides the major backing for the candidates who actually do make it to the polls? Large businesses - who also end up controlling decisions to a large extent. And large businesses have the sole motivatin of profit. Things like the environment and the welfare of society are actually just barriers to their goals. A country ruled by big business doen't make well-motivated decisions either internally or externally for the welfare of the domestic or international population, except in a handful of cases where business interests and social interests happen to co-incide.

Originally posted by munk
I wonder why so many psuedo communist revolutions have the word democracy in their banners, or is that answered by psuedo?
Click to expand...


There aren't any true democracies in the world, not in the real sense of the word, any more than there are true communist states.

Originally posted by munk
George Bush could not been an ideal represented figurehead any more than Gore could have been.
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No - neither would be/are good figureheads. Gore has no charisma and Bush doesn't speak English.

Originally posted by munk
Beoram, what attention has India paid to the conflict in Nepal? She would have the largest vested interest.
munk
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India has contributed resources at least. I don't know the details.

--end of my tirade-- ;)

--B.
 
Hi Guys
I've been reading more about the war in Nepal at BBC.com Seem like the Maoist are trying to establish a better government at Nepal. I know many of you might disagree with the Maoist and definatly with bombing and killing people. But under the current government, aren't the Kamis who are making our Kukris considered lowly untouchables under the Nepali Caste system? and that most of them are not getting enough money and food...That sucks... Perhaps if the Maoist abolish the current government, the Kamis would be better off. As in any war, people die, and the poorest usually suffer the most. And the Kamis are no exceptions.
What do you guys think is better for the Kamis, Current Nepali Caste system or Chinese rule. At least china doesn't have a caste system and under communist ideal, people are supposed to be comrads in equal standing. How it actually end up of course could be different.
 
end of my tirade-- >> beoram

why, we don't agree upon everything, but if you can't have a tirade then surely I can't either, and what fun would that be?

As for the ability to speak english- overated.

I will never forget, though, When Bush was in Europe the first time and at least one of the foriegn heads of state spoke better english as a second language than he did as a first...Bush did a great job on his call to arms after the crisis, his english more than good enough to mobilize action.

munk




munk
 
I don't know what to say! I'll pray for all of Nepal and our friends at BirGorkha!

I condem these Fuc#%&* Maoist to Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Just heard from an Amrican friend living in Kathmandu. The "Poeple's Army" that is supposed to help the lower castes is being most destructive to the average person.

Workers who ignore the strike will be beaten or worse. The people living hand to mouth are the most negatively affected. Schools will be closed all week. Schools are more often closed in Ktm than open.

Because of their wanton destructiveness the Maoists are losing popular support, but their violence keeps the people down and afraid to openly protest.

So far Americans are not actively targeted, but Steve says that American friends of his, when out alone, have been asked -- none to gently -- to make a sizeable "donation" to the Maoists. When someone with an AK-47 asks for a donation, they get it.

It is only a matter of time.
 
I've been reading more about the war in Nepal at BBC.com Seem like the Maoist are trying to establish a better government at Nepal.
Click to expand...

Abear,

That's what they say, but as the current government (any government for that matter) demonstrates, a government can't be any better than the people who run it. Regardless of policies. That's why the ability to change those who run the government is so important. The Maoists have been unable at best, unwilling worst, to contain eggregious acts of pure terrorism against the population. That emmisaries (self-proclaimed or directed) of the "new" government appear as adolescent girls who drag someone out of his house and hack up his leg with an axe, suggests to me that many would find a system of moderate graft and social inequality preferable to what this particular crop of "Maoists" might create.
 
Originally posted by Abear

What do you guys think is better for the Kamis, Current Nepali Caste system or Chinese rule. At least china doesn't have a caste system and under communist ideal, people are supposed to be comrads in equal standing. How it actually end up of course could be different.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I doubt that the caste system would just dissolve after implementation of communist rule. Also, I was under the impression (please correct me) that the caste system was no longer legal in Nepal, and it had been officially abolished (am I getting Nepal and India mixed up??) but is still held up by long-standing tradition.

Anyway, I doubt that an operation like HI could have been set up in China. Now it would be easier, but for a long time it was very difficult for western companies to build contacts in China. Furthermore, the kamis themselves would likely be worse off - HI pays princely sums, including healthcare! Under a chinese-type system, with a state-owned corporation, wages and quality would likely be lower.

But again, I like to speculate about things I know nothing about.
 
I guess most of us average guys just want the best for the people of nepal and the Kamis. I agree that Communist have a great idea, but how this ideal turns out and gets implemented is a whole other story.
Actually I used to be from China. It's certainly not as good as the US, but I didn't have to deal with fighting and there's not caste system to keep anyone down. Most of the people I know are just like people here, average wage earners making a living and supporting their family.
I did hear horror stories from my parent's generation about the red guards running around beating up people in the 60 I think, killing people, burning foreign books and music and other sort of nasty things. It's not red guards against common people, but a bunch of enthusiastic, patriotic, but often misled buch of teenage students beating the hell out of each other, the "intellectual" or whatever they should be beating up on according to popular propaganda. They're not bad, just misled and used by the officials fighting for power. Seem like what's going on in nepal is in some way similar. The people are trying to establish a better government because the living conditions are bad, but they're being misled and used by both the Maoist on one side and the Nepal government on the other. I don't want to sound like a Maoist supporter, but I bet the royal family has a bunch of dough while the Kamis and other commoners are starving. As for 15 year old girl chopping people's leg off. Wow, that certainly reminds me of those red guards:eek:
So Where can Pala and the Kami's move to?
 
:( :mad:

I just now got to the forum for today. This is news none of us wants to hear!!!!
There's many of us who know that in some circumstances things always get worse before they get better. Let's pray that things do get better and not any worse as that's about all we can do right now.
Damn I hate the feeling of helplessness!!!!

Yvsa.
 
The only true power is prayer. I think prayer will be all that those poor people will be able to do. It saddens me very deeply!!!!

The communist Chinese will have guns and ammo. Not even khukuris can defeat that. China wants to take over that entire area. The Muslims want all of the middle east. I think it will be the "BIG ONE" sooner than most will care to admit. The Mayan calendar stopped at ???2006, the Egyptian around 2010. I think prayer is very important now. A sharp khukuri with an ample supply of your favorite shooter isn't a bad idea either. May Budda help us!:(

Sam
 
Wonder why things are so bad in North Korea?

Any of you Nam vets want to speak of how the Maoists -- were they not known as the Viet Cong? -- handled things in Viet Nam? I hear from recent visitors to the country that things have not changed that much and that present government corruption is just as bad or worse than it ever was.

And how did Joe Stalin and Mao themselves do it? With lots of kindness and compassion for the people?

Don't believe the BS. It is the same everytime and everywhere.
 
Power corrupts. When the people start looking at Mao like a god, he acted like one. The lowly people gets screwed every time. I know the sons of the communist offical now are making lots and lots of money. With their fathers making the rules and the sons making the money and over 1 billion cheap laboror... You can't beat that. But then again, is the Nepali government any better? What wonderful choices to choose from:(
 
I'll tell you exactly what they need: A brand new government elected by the people for the people. You need outside monitors in every village at every poll with somebody who can verbally explain to those who can't read and write what and who they can vote for in the first real free election.
 
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