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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
ProCut, new steel, it’s a good one 👍
- Thread starter DevinT
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2022
- Messages
- 144
I am a newer maker, I have been preoccupied with tooling and a shop for several years; But, I have made 3 batches of AEBL and Magnacut blades. I have a process of plates and cryo for both. I have gotten myself a hunk of Procut and would prefer to use the plate quench sequence; 1'x1'x2"plates with blown air, cool enough to transfer to 1'x5"x2"plates, clamped, submerged in water. placed in LN2 for at least one hr....72-74HRC. I do the temper a little different on Magnacut, but, I do 200F for 2hrs, two times. I will measure 64-65. I have at least 30 blades processed,
Having only plate quenched, it seems like a bad idea to oil quench anything.
Having only worked with stainless bar, I noticed that the bar of Procut that I got has a pretty good bow in it as shipped. I have a 4'x2" bar and both ends are at least a half inch off of my table. I have been planning on tweaking it to straight before cutting out my profiles. Just an observation. Different class of steel for me and thought the plate quench should work fine. Why would it not?
Having only plate quenched, it seems like a bad idea to oil quench anything.
Having only worked with stainless bar, I noticed that the bar of Procut that I got has a pretty good bow in it as shipped. I have a 4'x2" bar and both ends are at least a half inch off of my table. I have been planning on tweaking it to straight before cutting out my profiles. Just an observation. Different class of steel for me and thought the plate quench should work fine. Why would it not?
Larrin
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 4,996
Because ProCut an oil hardening steel and those others are air hardening.
Larrin
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 4,996
Article is published: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2025/06/04/pops-procut-a-new-carbon-steel-for-knives/
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2022
- Messages
- 144
My tester seems to match the calibration block. I know you work with AEBL quite a bit.
If we are seeing a span error on that tester, my hill just got steeper.
If we are seeing a span error on that tester, my hill just got steeper.
Oil hardening steels need to get below a certain temp in seconds. Air hardening steels have a minute or more to get under their critical temperature.
I heat treated what I though was AEB-L a while back and got 66-68 out of the plate quench/cryo, tempered back to 63. Then I found out it was 1095! OOPS! Super HUGE brittle grain structure, but it actually hardened in plates/foil pouch because it was so overheated. I HT'd it like it was AEBL and overcooked the steel a LOT. But AEB-L will not get that hard.
I wonder if the blades have a bow/warp to them and it's flexing and testing way harder than it is since the steel is flexing instead of the diamond penetrating?
I heat treated what I though was AEB-L a while back and got 66-68 out of the plate quench/cryo, tempered back to 63. Then I found out it was 1095! OOPS! Super HUGE brittle grain structure, but it actually hardened in plates/foil pouch because it was so overheated. I HT'd it like it was AEBL and overcooked the steel a LOT. But AEB-L will not get that hard.
I wonder if the blades have a bow/warp to them and it's flexing and testing way harder than it is since the steel is flexing instead of the diamond penetrating?
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 37,793
I agree with Taz. Something is wrong with your test.
First, what machine are you using?
The below applies to most any test, but is specifically for a standard Rockwell tester.
The placement of the test blade on the anvil is very important. Do not hold it in your hand. It should be balanced. If needed, place a weight on the blade to keep it balanced. Don't use a magnet, as this can cause the tester to become slightly magnetic and attract metallic dust as well as possibly affecting the readings.
Blades should be demagnetized and well cleaned prior to testing.
Check calibration. Use certified test blocks that have been tested on one side only. Use blocks from a known source. Cheap blocks are cheaper for a reason. Home made test plates may not test evenly across the surface or be parallel perfectly.
A calibration test is:
1) Three tests to seat the indicator and anvil. These readings are only recorded for comparison and not part of actual testing.
2) Take three to five readings spaced at least .01" apart. You can average three tests, but the most accurate results are by discarding the highest and lowest reading of five test and average the remaining three tests. Adjust the machine to match the test. Just adding or subtracting the error from the test block number is not the best way to go. The machine when properly calibrated should read the same as the block. Repeat until properly adjusted.
3) Once calibration is done, test the blade the same way. Frequent calibration checks are a good idea. Most folks start every blade test with a check of a block in the projected hardness range. If testing an as-quenched blade, use a block in the Rc65-67 range. For testing after temper, check with a Rc 60-62 block ... etc.
4) You can't test the bevels. Even the ricasso may be iffy on a blade not precision surface ground and checked with a micrometer. Both sides of the test area need to be perfectly parallel, smooth and finished to least 220 grit. Be aware that any burr or roughness at the edge will affect the test. Slightly champher all edges that will be on the anvil. Any non-parallelism will affect the test. I doubt most blades tested in our shops are really parallel, which is why you see so many different hardness readings posted by makers using the same basic HT. Precision surface grinders are nice, but most smiths have to do the best they can with what they have, so check with a micrometer and get the surfaces as close to parallel as possible in four measuring spots. Sanding on a granite surface plate in a figure-eight motion works pretty well.
5) The anvil and indenter need to be solidly seated and locked in place. 0.000080″ in movement will result in a reading error of one point.( In theory, the thickness of a dirty fingerprint could skew the reading 10 Rockwell points.) Even dust /oil/etc. on the surface of the anvil or test object can cause an error reading. This is why you do three pre-test readings to seat them down.
The tester needs to be level and on a very solid and vibration free base. In a lab, it is often a 200# or heavier block of granite. You might get one free from a monument/gravestone place. If the tester was moved recently, it needs to be checked and recalibrated.
Indenter should be checked with a 10 power loupe. Tip must be a perfect point. Even a microscopic chip or flat will affect the readings.
Check dash pot oil level and assure all pivots and mechanisms are properly oiled and cleaned. Check inside and out.
Do every test the same way. Speed of moving levers and such all affect the readings.
Silly as it sounds, check the weights. They should total150Kg rating and be clean of dust and dirt. (they actually weigh 37.5Kg, not 150Kg)
First, what machine are you using?
The below applies to most any test, but is specifically for a standard Rockwell tester.
The placement of the test blade on the anvil is very important. Do not hold it in your hand. It should be balanced. If needed, place a weight on the blade to keep it balanced. Don't use a magnet, as this can cause the tester to become slightly magnetic and attract metallic dust as well as possibly affecting the readings.
Blades should be demagnetized and well cleaned prior to testing.
Check calibration. Use certified test blocks that have been tested on one side only. Use blocks from a known source. Cheap blocks are cheaper for a reason. Home made test plates may not test evenly across the surface or be parallel perfectly.
A calibration test is:
1) Three tests to seat the indicator and anvil. These readings are only recorded for comparison and not part of actual testing.
2) Take three to five readings spaced at least .01" apart. You can average three tests, but the most accurate results are by discarding the highest and lowest reading of five test and average the remaining three tests. Adjust the machine to match the test. Just adding or subtracting the error from the test block number is not the best way to go. The machine when properly calibrated should read the same as the block. Repeat until properly adjusted.
3) Once calibration is done, test the blade the same way. Frequent calibration checks are a good idea. Most folks start every blade test with a check of a block in the projected hardness range. If testing an as-quenched blade, use a block in the Rc65-67 range. For testing after temper, check with a Rc 60-62 block ... etc.
4) You can't test the bevels. Even the ricasso may be iffy on a blade not precision surface ground and checked with a micrometer. Both sides of the test area need to be perfectly parallel, smooth and finished to least 220 grit. Be aware that any burr or roughness at the edge will affect the test. Slightly champher all edges that will be on the anvil. Any non-parallelism will affect the test. I doubt most blades tested in our shops are really parallel, which is why you see so many different hardness readings posted by makers using the same basic HT. Precision surface grinders are nice, but most smiths have to do the best they can with what they have, so check with a micrometer and get the surfaces as close to parallel as possible in four measuring spots. Sanding on a granite surface plate in a figure-eight motion works pretty well.
5) The anvil and indenter need to be solidly seated and locked in place. 0.000080″ in movement will result in a reading error of one point.( In theory, the thickness of a dirty fingerprint could skew the reading 10 Rockwell points.) Even dust /oil/etc. on the surface of the anvil or test object can cause an error reading. This is why you do three pre-test readings to seat them down.
The tester needs to be level and on a very solid and vibration free base. In a lab, it is often a 200# or heavier block of granite. You might get one free from a monument/gravestone place. If the tester was moved recently, it needs to be checked and recalibrated.
Indenter should be checked with a 10 power loupe. Tip must be a perfect point. Even a microscopic chip or flat will affect the readings.
Check dash pot oil level and assure all pivots and mechanisms are properly oiled and cleaned. Check inside and out.
Do every test the same way. Speed of moving levers and such all affect the readings.
Silly as it sounds, check the weights. They should total150Kg rating and be clean of dust and dirt. (they actually weigh 37.5Kg, not 150Kg)
Last edited:
wow! That's impressive how well that performs compares to 52100 on Catra! I just got my Pro Cut in I'm thinking of using a austenitizing temperature1500 300 temper for maximum wear resistance and max edge retention.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2025
- Messages
- 19
Looks like forging makers have a new standard in blade steel, the toughness/edge retention balance looks incredible. i'm looking forward to seeing how long it takes to replace previous forging "standards" like 80crv2 and 52100.