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Proxy Sales; Opinion Time

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Danke42

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So it seems to be a semi-common pattern regarding proxy sales. Weeks after the deal is done an issue pops up when the end buyer gets the knife.

Is it time to add a stipulation that if using a proxy they are responsible for inspecting the item and if there is a problem also sorting it with the seller at a later time. Now the proxies typically seems to just re-label the box and move on.

Being outside CONUS I see lots of interesting knives that are out of reach so I can appreciate that this system is a popular work around but are some of the people using this work around not shouldering their responsibility?
 
If the deal doesn't end at the original destination, there is no purpose in doing it that way. If I am going to be responsible until it reaches the final destination, I might as well have sent it there in the 1st place.
So one way or the other the deal ends at the US destination. Either have them inspect it and file an immediate claim or accept the loss when it gets to your country.IMO
Also inform the seller he (or she) is doing this type of transaction.
I have never had any problems with these type transactions, but the 1st time I do will be the last time I do one.
Flip side-seller should give full disclosure and not try to stiff international buyers and buyers should be very sure of what to expect.
 
Based on what I've observed years over various forums selling knives and many other various collectables. Using a proxy doesn't absolve sellers of responsibility or shield them from issues by not selling direct. You get the same potential headache but now involved an extra person and additional shipping risks. The buyer can claim to hold you responsible only shipping to the proxy but that lasts only until the issue arises and then suddenly they have a change of mind. I don't see the benefits.
 
I have been the recipient of LOTS of kniVes I paid for but which were shipped to friends in the US and onto me later or collected in person. In these cases I have asked the recipient to examine the kniVes for me and I leave my feedback and fully accept OWNERSHIP at that point. I DON'T believe it should work any other way. I do understand why some are not comfortable shipping internationally and third party deliveries such are a way of i) me getting a blade I want and ii) removing the additional trouble/concern from the seller.

The seller's role and responsibility in these transactions is COMPLETE in my view when the knife/kniVes arrive at the US delivery address in the condition advertised. It is incumbent on ME to make sure a proper examination takes place at this time....not some weeks or longer when the knife comes into my possession. I could not and would not, in good faith raise and issue so far after the fact and once the blade has been in possession of another.
 
Danke42 said:
So it seems to be a semi-common pattern regarding proxy sales. Weeks after the deal is done an issue pops up when the end buyer gets the knife.

Is it time to add a stipulation that if using a proxy they are responsible for inspecting the item and if there is a problem also sorting it with the seller at a later time. Now the proxies typically seems to just re-label the box and move on.

Being outside CONUS I see lots of interesting knives that are out of reach so I can appreciate that this system is a popular work around but are some of the people using this work around not shouldering their responsibility?
Click to expand...

Can a proxy inspection rule conceivably enforced if a forwarding services/shipping is employed? To my understanding (I've never used one before) if they get the right box and send it along to the correct place they've done their job.

I don't really have a problem with proxies so long as EVERYONE is on the same page about who's getting what and where each's responsibilities lie.

I have no interest in engaging in this type of transaction but probably would entertain it with members like the gentleman above or some of the other regulars I've seen on the forum for years that reside outside the states.
 
I have never used a "service" (only friends) but I don't believe that any of the commercial operations would open and inspect and item and report on it's condition. At best they may (probably as a protection to themselves) confirm the contents as being what is generally described... ie "a knife".
 
If the proxy pays for the item, making it a transaction between the proxy and the seller (and then the proxy and the foreign buyer can sort out the rest), would not all the potential issues be gone?
 
I'm outside of the US and use a forwarding company for transactions where US sellers don't want to ship internationally. I'd rather people simply ship international, and I am thankful to those who have, especially Bladeforums users. But it some people and companies simply will not, and so I have to use a proxy/forwarder.

The forwarder does don't inspect the knife, they don't take it out of the packaging, they don't mess with the product in any way. They just put a new label on the box and send it my way. In these cases, I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold the seller accountable for issues with the knife, at least as much as they would be accountable for any deal within the USA. I'm not going to go after them if it gets lost en route from the forwarding company to my address, of course, but anything else like having it go missing on it's way to the forwarder or the knife having undisclosed issues, etc is still their responsibility. I think that's a perfectly fair way to go about things.

(To clarify, I pay for the knife, then it goes to the forwarding company, after which I pay for their service of shipping it to me)

I try to avoid having friends or family in the US being acting as proxies for the very reason that some folks have already stated: it adds another complicating factor. I've done it once or twice, but only when the seller insists on doing so and I am thus unable to make use of a forwarding company.
 
Being an international buyer... this is how I conduct business with respected Forum members step wise.
1) I don't send "I'll take it" on the main thread (on most of my purchases), so that if the sale doesn't fall through, that other members will not have " concluded ideas "or tag this product as questionable , but a "PM sent" suffice .
2) my private message state clearly the following points:
A. I'll take it.
B. Full disclosure being an international buyer with a shipping address in the US. And that the shipping shall the deal be conducted, will be domestic.
C. Clear statement that when the knife lands safely at my shipping address and is delivered with signature (if requested), then the seller is free from responsibility of what happens next.( for example if the shipment was lost on it's way to my home address).
D. Stating clearly that the only payment option available through my PayPal is Goods and services.

Now these are the broad lines for a deal for me, However I discuss the condition of the knife, details ( might request more pics)... etc.

That been said, here is The reality part...
There will always be risks and surprises.
I personally recieved not once, several items that were not 100% as described, or had an issue with the built, that might be a deal breaker for a lot, (from what I read here at the Forum).
For me I always give the benefit of doubt to the seller, and I try to think of it , that it is only fair, provided the relatively added risk one takes on their behalf of the deal.
I found courteous, and timely communications to be the major contributors to my experience here at this beloved Forum.
Needless to mention that the beginnings were so difficult in terms of trust and dealings, yet that it is only justified, provided that we don't meet in person to fulfill an important part of personal assessment and evaluation.
I was denied purchases on several occasions, based on seller preferences, and it is completely OK with me as there are always other chances, and the seller has the right to do whatever he sees feasible with his merchandise.
Besides...waiting only keeps the excitement more.

Sorry for the lengthy message.
 
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Coreman Coreman that's pretty much what I've done re the few things I have bought here. Contact the seller and negotiate.

The hitch in that is that for the stuff I like there are many buyers in the USA so most of the time the knife is snapped up. If a knife has been up for a while and bumped then the seller is going to be more open to a bit of bartering.
 
Coreman said:
Being an international buyer... this is how I conduct business with respected Forum members step wise.
1) I don't send "I'll take it" on the main thread (on most of my purchases), so that if the sale doesn't fall through, that other members will not have " concluded ideas "or tag this product as questionable , but a "PM sent" suffice .
2) my private message state clearly the following points:
A. I'll take it.
B. Full disclosure being an international buyer with a shipping address in the US. And that the shipping shall the deal be conducted, will be domestic.
C. Clear statement that when the knife lands safely at my shipping address and is delivered with signature, then the seller is free from responsibility of what happens next.( for example if the shipment was lost on it's way to my home address).
D. Stating clearly that the only payment option available through my PayPal is Goods and services.

Now these are the broad lines for a deal for me, However I discuss the condition of the knife, details ( might request more pics)... etc.

That been said, here is The reality part...
There will always be risks and surprises.
I personally recieved not once, several items that were not 100% as described, or had an issue with the built, that might be a deal breaker for a lot (from what I read here at the Forum).
For me I always give the benefit of doubt for the seller, and I try to think of it is only fair, provided the relatively added risk the take on their behalf of the deal.
I found courteous, and timely communications to be the major contributors to my experience here at this beloved Forum.
Needless to mention that the beginnings were so difficult in terms of trust and dealings, yet that it only justified provided that we don't meet in person to fulfill an important part of personal assessment and evaluation.
I was denied purchases on several occasions, based on seller preferences, and it is completely OK with me as there are always other chances, and the seller has the right to do whatever he sees feasible with his merchandise.
Besides...waiting only keeps the excitement more.

Sorry for the lengthy message.
Click to expand...
I agree for the most part, and this is generally my procedure as well. The one thing I'm not sold on is accepting undisclosed issues with the items as an unavoidable part of being a non-US resident who likes knives; those things are still on the seller, as it would be for a domestic transaction. Using a proxy, especially a company that doesn't handle and inspect the items, has no impact on the condition of the knife, and as a result, using a proxy should not be an excuse for a seller to off-load a misrepresented item on an international buyer.
 
Lance Leon Lance Leon the drive behind this is not to give the sellers carte blanche with an international sale. If you read a lot of the sales ads you'll see sellers who want to wash their hands of any responsibility for domestic sales.

The drive here is to create a guideline for a proxy sale to help insure both parties are happy before something goes through international customs.
 
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Lance Leon said:
I agree for the most part, and this is generally my procedure as well. The one thing I'm not sold on is accepting undisclosed issues with the items as an unavoidable part of being a non-US resident who likes knives; those things are still on the seller, as it would be for a domestic transaction. Using a proxy, especially a company that doesn't handle and inspect the items, has no impact on the condition of the knife, and as a result, using a proxy should not be an excuse for a seller to off-load a misrepresented item on an international buyer.
Click to expand...

Yes sir I see where you stand, and I agree... I might have been not completely clear here.
If it wasn't 100% as described, I discuss the matter with the seller and reach a conclusion...
Several factors play role here like how much I want the knife or like it, how does the seller react to my communication and discussion, and the cost-effectiveness of me sending it back and shipment matters and fees... etc.
I understand that I might have the luxury of absorbing some losses or collateral damage, that other fellow members might feel uncomfortable with.
Experience and selekectivness grow with time and dealings.
 
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Danke42 said:
So it seems to be a semi-common pattern regarding proxy sales. Weeks after the deal is done an issue pops up when the end buyer gets the knife.

Is it time to add a stipulation that if using a proxy they are responsible for inspecting the item and if there is a problem also sorting it with the seller at a later time. Now the proxies typically seems to just re-label the box and move on.

Being outside CONUS I see lots of interesting knives that are out of reach so I can appreciate that this system is a popular work around but are some of the people using this work around not shouldering their responsibility?
Click to expand...

I generally just refuse these sort of deals. If, and its a big IF, I bother to go through with them it's with the express written understanding in no uncertain terms thay the buyer is assuming 100% of the risk. If they dont like the knife, don't receive the knife, etc. they're just out. Sorry.

I'm not willing to assume that sort of risk as a seller, so if you want the knife bad enough to request that I jump through hoops to get it to you then the dice roll is going to be all yours.
 
I had a bad experience once with a knife trans shipped to Russia from a USA address. The end buyer claimed the knife was abused when he received it and wanted his money back and expected to keep the knife! I had the pics to prove its condition when I shipped it. He never provided pics of it in as received condition. Basically I told him to go pound sand.

I only agree to proxy sales to people I've dealt with before and those with lots of good feedback.
 
To the folks that dislike proxy sales I say this: why don't you just ship the item directly then? Proxy addresses have only become a thing because people are unwilling to ship outside the US. A little communication is all it takes to keep things simple and smooth, whether the deal is domestic or international.
 
As a seller I don't ship internationally due to many variables/hassles I've encountered.
If I sell to a proxy without my knowledge I'm completely responsible for my packaged goods to arrive at the destination designated by their verified PayPal address ONLY and for those goods to be in the condition I stated in my sale thread.
Anywhere it's shipped after that it's on the proxy not me.

In the end the proxy is making a separate deal all for themselves, correct?
That makes them responsible.

Now I'll need to add all this no proxy crap to my sales threads...:rolleyes:
 
Barman1 said:
As a seller I don't ship internationally due to many variables/hassles I've encountered.
If I sell to a proxy without my knowledge I'm completely responsible for my packaged goods to arrive at the destination designated by their verified PayPal address ONLY and for those goods to be in the condition I stated in my sale thread.
Anywhere it's shipped after that it's on the proxy not me.

In the end the proxy is making a separate deal all for themselves, correct?
That makes them responsible.

Now I'll need to add all this no proxy crap to my sales threads...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
If you don't do international deals (proxy or direct), whatever your reasons, that's fine. But no, proxies are not making a separate deal for themselves. As discussed earlier in the thread, forwarding companies exist. The deal is purely between the seller and the buyer, and the proxy is simply another shipping company.
 
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