R&D,18th c.American axe

Thank you,Fmont,those are great photos and measurements both,Very informative.
In general,even among the Stohler and Stricker axes only we have a seriously wide band of styles and patterns.
Yours seems to be incredibly close to where the american axes have eventually all came to:Radically high centerline,very thin eye walls(those were probably thinned by grinding at least in part,it'd be super difficult to handle in hot-work).

Again,i'm proud to associate here with esteemed axe-freaks,and as such of course it only stands to reason that your axes` are all handled,and don't sit around like abstract objects without hafts.

But if someone does perchance has one kicking about minus haft what would help to know is where abouts similar head Balanced.As in distribution of mass poll to edge.

That overly elongated one from yesterday still balances exactly on forward end of eye,in spite of ridiculously long/heavy mass in the blade.

Yours appears as it'd balance Way closer towards the poll...

Where IS that "ideal" balance point?Does it exist,is there consensus?(when i've time,i'll review that somewhat contentious discussion in Rinaldi axes,i vaguely remember).But where would the good balance be for these(straight-hafted as they were)?

Here's a photo of the two experimental heads so far.I took the smaller one to our local store to weigh it on a nice electronic scale,it's 1.89 Lbs.
https://imgur.com/a/l79CRNK
 
So yes,Balance point is one pertinent piece of the puzzle,and another is the angle of Convergence of the blade in general.
(sharpening afterwards et c. is as it may be;the primary convergence angle is something forged/ground in by the smith and remains unaltered).

As an example,in Europe it was generally held that a slope of 5:1 is appropriate
(so a blade would measure 1/2" thick x5 that from edge,so 2.5").
It acts as chip-breaker,of course,and so would have that minimal angle.
 
Here's how the balance can be affected at the earliest stages.
https://imgur.com/a/cC6TvxJ
I'm setting up to play with the slit&drifted half of this research,and it'd be great to have an idea beforehand.
Dimensions chalked on that block of WI (7/8"x2"x5") are roughly what i've been using all along:1" for poll/2" eye/blade varies.
That s&d preform of 3/4" mild has taken up pretty much exactly 3" of stock(to front of eye).
 
So,i took a chunk of forge-scale in the old eye-ball,and after a gruesome night decided to make a light day of it today.
(It surely was Karma.Happened Immediately after i was done harvesting organs from that (misbegotten and Chinese but still an) axe.As i was cutting it up i read "roughneck" on one side,and "wear safety goggles" on the other.And i DIDST weareth them.But one came in right from underneath...).

After examining that axe from yesterday closely(with one good eye:),i could see that i went too far in forging for anything gained by further hot-work.
So it became an experiment in Grinding.
Learned a great deal.It's amazing how much mass it takes do do a proper grind...I'm glad of that decision,and actually like that axe if only a little but better.
(connection is hopeless for photos right now;will try later).

I really liked many of an explicit lesson contained in that Stohler that Fmont so kindly posted today.
Blade ground smooth,but not necessarily some of the less critical parts.
The welds close to the edge are thus checked,"proofed",for any possible flaws.
Profiling,that needs doing anyway...So it was a good thing to get into grimding a bit.
(this May work:https://imgur.com/a/4HlkF7o or this:https://imgur.com/LtQX9Bv)
 
jake pogg said:
So,i took a chunk of forge-scale in the old eye-ball,and after a gruesome night decided to make a light day of it today.
(It surely was Karma.Happened Immediately after i was done harvesting organs from that (misbegotten and Chinese but still an) axe.As i was cutting it up i read "roughneck" on one side,and "wear safety goggles" on the other.And i DIDST weareth them.But one came in right from underneath...).

After examining that axe from yesterday closely(with one good eye:),i could see that i went too far in forging for anything gained by further hot-work.
So it became an experiment in Grinding.
Learned a great deal.It's amazing how much mass it takes do do a proper grind...I'm glad of that decision,and actually like that axe if only a little but better.
(connection is hopeless for photos right now;will try later).

I really liked many of an explicit lesson contained in that Stohler that Fmont so kindly posted today.
Blade ground smooth,but not necessarily some of the less critical parts.
The welds close to the edge are thus checked,"proofed",for any possible flaws.
Profiling,that needs doing anyway...So it was a good thing to get into grimding a bit.
(this May work:https://imgur.com/a/4HlkF7o or this:https://imgur.com/LtQX9Bv)
Click to expand...

By Jove that's an axe! And a good one!
 
  • Like
Reactions: A17
jake pogg said:
And lastly,the top view.
Now This i rather like.It's not too far from #1 of Old Axeman's,that he liked more as a user...https://imgur.com/a/YJ2jTlj
In plan view,however,i'm still unhappy with that one.
Click to expand...

That one isn't showing up for me.

As an aside, you must be getting very long days up there by now. How is it up there? Warming up yet? Has the ice broke up on the river?
 
Sometimes the photos show up on imgur, sometimes they don't. Not sure what's going on there. Everything I'm seeing is incredible though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A17
Square_peg said:
Must be a mighty fine weld in there somewhere, but it doesn't show!
Click to expand...

Yes,it's a good weld on both sides there,just what it's supposed to be.
(you can see contrast between two alloys,and a light "de-carb" line in between(beats me why C would diffuse abruptly at the boundary,metallurgically speaking,but that's how it's commonly referred to).

That's one of the appealing points of many of these axes we're looking at:The less-important seams are...kinda Eh...,but those on the bizness end of things are scrupulously blended in,and the grind leaves no doubt.

But that old saw,"He who would a good edge win,must forge Thick,and grind Thin" kept going through my mind....I removed a ridiculous amount of metal by grinding...If forging wasn't as heavy as it was,it wouldn't have worked...

In Fmonts photos above,the shot of the steel blade insert appears parallel-sided,virtually undeformed.I wonder if Stohler forged the blanks Very thick,and then ground to finish size...

I'll try that top view again,thank you for saying that photo isn't showing...
https://imgur.com/a/YJ2jTlj
 
I would guess that Stohler brought the iron quite far forward. Even if the iron went all the way to the bit during forging, when ground to shape the steel bit would be exposed if I'm not mistaken.
 
Darn it,maybe This'll work...https://imgur.com/P9Vcu5D

Fmont said:
I would guess that Stohler brought the iron quite far forward. Even if the iron went all the way to the bit during forging, when ground to shape the steel bit would be exposed if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...
Yes,judging by how little distortion steel underwent,that may well've been the case.

Square_peg,it's Gorgeous and sunny here,but still cold,freezing hard of nights.
Very little open water,birds Just beginning to show up...
("birds" as in ducks and geese).Finally they began coming in,and Everyone is out hunting now,it's a big deal for around here.
River ice is WAY solid,barely even water around the edges,so not just hunting but inter-village travel is safe.
(Late-ish season...that's why i can still get away with screwing around in the forge...but my days are counted now,birds,water,it'll all avalanche now...).
 
Well, you figured out how to do it in a week. If you have the materials and the time you could can make cash whenever you need it with those
 
Fmont said:
Jake, that eye looks almost exactly how my Stohler did/does. Eerily similar!
Click to expand...

Fmont,THANK you,that,coming from a discerning person in actual proximity with an original is worth it's weight in gold...

But the following...
Fmont said:
Well, you figured out how to do it in a week. If you have the materials and the time you could can make cash whenever you need it with those
Click to expand...

Ha...:)...In my wildest,Most delusional dreams ONLY!:)
(not that i don't have those...but less and less,with age catching up...).
I'm only a few tiny steps toward reestablishing the technique and proportions yet,and have not any working prototypes to test...
It's like i've said above,(quoting J.Austin),20 tries or better,MAY,with any luck,get a guy to be able to say(cautiously at that):"Yeah...i could Try making you one of these".
And then the forge-work is valued so little,and the world is so full of cheap,nasty axes(and lots of cheap classy Real ones),that a man attempting a living doing this would starve.
(i Did;even with my humble requirements;hell,you couldn't even support the shop Itself on proceeds from forging.And if you tried,the necessary compromises will demolish the initial purpose-Quality-and we'll be right back to reality as we know it today).

No,Sir,alas and alack,after these couple decades,i know that the point in doing this can be many things But cash.
Passion,conviction,interest in history and dynamics of old tools,(mental illness...quite possibly:)

Poetically,Hunter S. Thompson said it well:"When the going gets weird,the weird turn Pro".:)
 
Well,i lowered my standard enough to allow myself this cheating move....
https://imgur.com/a/HJ7hWee
I don't feel Too bad,some of the best axe-smiths today do this,but it's a first time for me...Works like a dream!:).I was through ind drift in in 3(!) heats...
https://imgur.com/ex2MfSG

This time i went ahead and plated the poll first,before welding in the blade.
Very convenient,while the forging nice square ends.

Then came time for the blade...Again,this is the first of slit&drifted versions,and so i split the blade portion not quite all the way to the eye,to make a cleft-weld(precedented by one of old axes` we're going from here,#1 i believe).
Here's what composite looked like pre-welding:
https://imgur.com/9XLP0GU

This time the blade mat'l donor was the sidewall of an eye of an old pick-axe...Tapered in section,about 3/8" at the thickest.10xx series no doubt...

It welded fine,and this is what it looked like then,"pancaked" in the process necessarily :https://imgur.com/a/v4SNVm8

It was Very satisfying,i'm learning to direct the flow of metal much better.
Can't say that i'm happy with the product(i never am anyway),but a slight bit happier than last time.

After trimming off excess,and forging the "sway-back" back in straight,and sundry other corrections and re-drifting:https://imgur.com/a/LAzNIaZ
Top view should also be there,tacked onto that last image...(uff...processing these photos takes longer than forging the damn steel...:)
 
jake pogg said:
Well,i lowered my standard enough to allow myself this cheating move....
https://imgur.com/a/HJ7hWee
I don't feel Too bad,some of the best axe-smiths today do this,but it's a first time for me...Works like a dream!:).I was through ind drift in in 3(!) heats...
https://imgur.com/ex2MfSG

This time i went ahead and plated the poll first,before welding in the blade.
Very convenient,while the forging nice square ends.

Then came time for the blade...Again,this is the first of slit&drifted versions,and so i split the blade portion not quite all the way to the eye,to make a cleft-weld(precedented by one of old axes` we're going from here,#1 i believe).
Here's what composite looked like pre-welding:
https://imgur.com/9XLP0GU

This time the blade mat'l donor was the sidewall of an eye of an old pick-axe...Tapered in section,about 3/8" at the thickest.10xx series no doubt...

It welded fine,and this is what it looked like then,"pancaked" in the process necessarily :https://imgur.com/a/v4SNVm8

It was Very satisfying,i'm learning to direct the flow of metal much better.
Can't say that i'm happy with the product(i never am anyway),but a slight bit happier than last time.

After trimming off excess,and forging the "sway-back" back in straight,and sundry other corrections and re-drifting:https://imgur.com/a/LAzNIaZ
Top view should also be there,tacked onto that last image...(uff...processing these photos takes longer than forging the damn steel...:)
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to post the photos! I am mightily impressed by your highly skilled work!
 
Last edited:
Why thank you,Sir,very kind of you to say that...

Another day,another version of this same old design that i'm battering my thick head against...(please don't tell me you're bored,we've 16 more to go!:)

It's perfectly ok to be bored tho'...it Is rather boring.In order for it not to be,i'd have to at last start changing some dimensions or other parts of formula...And i'm still scared to.
Today an important threshold was reached:this axe may look identical to previous ones,but it was obtained purely by hammer-work alone,this is the natural,forged shape:https://imgur.com/a/519dhMm

And so it Is possible...I'm very grateful for it,it means a lot to me on my forging journey.
So this was the second of a slit&drift series;body A529(i think...),bit-leaf-spring;butt-plate a chunk of an old pick-axe.

I'm not sure if i want to further experiment with slitting(even though with pre-drilling i can make it easy and simple now,thanks to a biggish drill press my buddy brought over for me to use).
One of my hopes with this technique was to end up with enough beef in the poll to build a Wedge,but that was not to be.

So back to welded composites for that,and also because predominant number of survivinf examples of the originals are welded.
 
I normally don't take any photos during the welding process,in part out of superstitious fear(that anyone who forge-welds knows),but mostly because things are happening too quickly,don't want to break the stride.
I did take this one today.Composite is mostly welded,i took a breather for a smoke,and to examine this one part of the weld towards the heel that was the only one not sticking:
https://imgur.com/RZ0i2h3
You can see a dark shadow there,to where you know right away it's not One piece...A good weld glows uniformly,the particles are all agitated together,so what we're seeing as shadow is an irregularity in crystalline lattice,i.e. a bad weld:)

Leaf-spring,most commonly (in US) a Chrome-alloyed medium carbon steel like 5160,does not like forge-welding.Chrome oxides precipitate to the surface(for some reason)making my(ands other weirdos')lives difficult.
But then those oxides suddenly burn off,et voila,the weld sticks...So it was this time.
(although ultimately it shall be known in the grind).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top