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Discussion in 'Reate Knives' started by ScaryTerry, Oct 19, 2018.
Paying for a forum, you'd think they would respond to their customer base to clear things up.
Nick Shabazz just called out red Loctite and soft screws on the Peña Lannys X. He couldn't get the knife apart.
The silence from Reate on this forum is really disappointing.
That was super frustrating, because that knife was *so* good. Reate did such incredible work, that a little issue like this (which turns into a big issue over time) is just really sad. If Reate weren't one of the best companies making knives, I wouldn't even give it a second thought, but it kills me that these issues keep hurting their best work.
I hope they join many of the other great companies in the industry by addressing these long-term maintenance issues in their future production.
Even if Reate won't change their ways, I imagine they'll do what their OEM customers like Peña request. You had no trouble taking apart Liong Mah's Reate-made stuff, right?
Spyderco listened. It's simple business.
To be fair, makers have to do some calculus about the real costs. I think many of them use permanent thread locker for the same reason that so many other products are put together with one-way snaps or ultrasonic welds or with warranty seals over seams and screws: It discourages end users from creating problems and using warranty service to fix them. When you don't lock people out this way, the manufacturer and the dealer may bear some additional costs.
Thanks appreciate that. Just backed off from buying a Reate.
Same, I was getting ready to buy a K-2 but just came across this thread. I was leery of even the "high-end" Chinese makers for reasons like this (lack of quality CS stateside, potential for poor parts or materials) but Reate seemed to be the only one besides WE with an impeccable reputation so far and the K-2 just really speaks to me. Too bad.
Hey Falar. I own several Reates and I would say go ahead and get the K-2! I have the K-4 and the K series are very excellent knives. The problem with the torrent was they had the pivot screw glued in so much that it wasn't coming out no matter how much pressure I put on it, which in turn stripped out the screw. After taking apart 5+ reate model knives I believe on the older models they went heavy on the glue/locktite. Every one I've owned after the torrent has been just fine. I hope that helps, reate is at the top of the quality and precision machining right now. I am extremely impressed with their work.
I received a Torrent this past Saturday and immediately took it apart without heating up the screws. I had no problems (still looks new) despite using a a fair amount of force. To my advantage I have a vast selection of bits; almost like having Torx 7.75, 8, 8.25. I don't know if the screws are as hard as some others but the ones on my Torrent must not be soft.
Well I did get the K-2 after all. Great knife! I only removed the screw for the pocket clip but DAMN, it was on there. I was really worried about stripping it but it did break free safely.
If you do take the entire knife apart I would test the pivot first. If it feels like you need to put some force to it I would suggest heating the pivot to loosen any locktite or pivot glue
It's true this forum is a disappointment. No point in mincing words.
It's fun to watch Nick, go after things, but I wonder about the soft screw label. A high yield thread locker may be the issue, all by itself. I suspect Reate uses Titanium screws. They dont rust - will never stick, do to that. They're lighter than SS, a minor perk, given the relative mass. They are anodize-able, if you or they choose. And/but they are softer. It's a trade. With the pluses, there are minuses. A too tough thread locker will exacerbate the issue. But if I'm right, we shouldn't be bashing Reate for "soft screws."
That said, I really like, (as in they are my favorites), the several Reates I own, and wont hesitate to buy another, if one catches my eye.
There are other folks who use Ti screws who don't seem to have this problem as often. And perhaps it's a trade-off, particularly for anodization, and as I said in the review, there are those who buy these to collect (rather than use), and who don't require their tools to be maintainable in the long term with daily use. But if a company adds an achilles heel to their product (whether in the form of threadlocker, soft screws, or any other thing), I think it's important for enthusiasts of their products to highlight the decision and ask "why?". Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't hesitate to ask.
Like I said, if Reate wasn't doing such good work, I wouldn't give a damn, I'd just write them off and move on. But I'd much rather see them address this, allowing their knives to more consistently be good choices for users AND collectors.
I wonder why they bothered opening a forum here and don't even use it.
Nick, we boys love our toys. Being guys we work hard to rationalize our choice. We, put forward functionality in our conversation, things like steel attributes, ergonomics, action, when it's esthetics, styling, fit and finish that really drives things, especially above a certain ($) point. I bet I'm not alone, but when you're spending something north of $300, are you really gonna cut anything with it? Is it ever gonna "need" disassembly and cleaning? Sure there are exceptions - those billionaires you wrote about, maybe. Most of us are loathe to admit we're just collectors. At the upper end price-wise of production knives, Reate's making jewelry, albeit guy jewelry. In that world, Titanium screws are a plus, de rigueur, even. Ti screws, particularly if made in house, are not available in the metallurgy, heat treat, and grades that steel fasteners are. Some knives are for cutting, some for looking. Would you dare turn a screw driver on a lovely old Breguet from the late 1700s with its gold movement? Would you take it to just any old jeweler? Your Omegas are pretty. My watch is an Iphone. Thread locker's another matter.
Can't say I disagree with that. I carry a multitool and have beater knives so the vast majority of my knives are showpieces/toys that I fiddle with. If I really like something I'll buy a second one (just like I do with most of my guns) so I don't feel so bad wearing something out. I have bad OCD when it comes to keeping things perfect though which is why I am absolutely done with high-end cars. Too much stress.
I acknowledge that a great number of knives are safe queens. However, I think most knife enthusiasts actually use their knives whether a cheap beater or a $400 Reate. I own a bunch of Reates under various labels and every one of them has been used at some point in time. We've had usage polls here at BF and the collector/keeper are usually a minority to the user. I think the majority of enthusiasts use their expensive knives because it just feels so damn good to use a well made tool. They're not billionaires, they just trust in their own hand to use an expensive knife and not destroy it. I can promise you, I'm no billionaire.
Part of a knife's "duty" as a usable tool is to be maintainable. It doesn't matter if Reate hardware is soft or just a side effect of titanium hardware with overly aggressive thread locker. If you can't maintain a tool with periodic disassembly/reassembly, it's not capable of performing its full function as a tool. That relegates the knife to little more than "looker" status. A knife that can't be maintained isn't much more than jewelry from the get-go.
I think that's the crux of Nick's beef with the Reate hardware and a reason I buy less Reates than I used to. They're beautiful pieces that are a testament to manufacturing, but a huge element of the function of a tool is absent if it can't be maintained. This becomes a greater problem with bearing pivots which tend to be standard among Reate offerings.
I absolutely agree that they need to be user serviceable. I just saw another collector admitting to being a collector and agreed.