S30V: Is it really 'that' bad?

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sharkattacksw

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Quick question about S30V vs S110V for you guys. I’m in the market for a new knife (PM2). I mentioned this to a coworker and he said I should get the S110V version because S30V is now considered just an average steel. I started looking into S110V and really liked what I read about edge retention, but was a little ‘scared off’ by the reports of it chipping. How common is chipping in S110V? Are those the result of abuse, or normal use?

I’m not nearly as well versed in steels as many of you guys, so I’m asking for your advice. I certainly don’t abuse my knives, but I definitely do use them. I have some other Spydercos in S30V and have no issues with them. But in the interest of trying something new, I’m now looking at the S110V version. I just don’t want to be disappointed in my purchase.

So, if you had to choose between the S30V and the S110V version of the PM2, which would you choose and why? Thanks in advance for your help and advice.
 
I think in the PM2s it's nice to get one of the new "cool" steels. It's there so why not.

Chipping etc. usually involves the heat treat and geometry along with the material.

But honestly if I was lining up to get a PM2 right now I"d be holding out for the MAXMET to drop.
 
S30V is what I think of as the standard for stainless cutlery steel these days. I would go S110V because we now know how the steel prefers to be sharpened and what substrates it prefers to be sharpened on. Does anyone know the RC range of Spyderco PM2 S30V? IIRC, PM2 S110V is 60-62 RC so how that translates to toughness versus PM2 S30V within its respective RC range may be important (as marginal as it may be).
 
S30V also had a reputation of chipping. When it was introduced in Benchmade knives there were problems of it holding an edge but this was attributed by many to poor control of grinding temperatures when the knife was given its final sharpening at the factory. Usually, harder steels and longer edge holding steels tend to be more chippy. As also already said, edge geometry is important and should have an angle suited to the steel, its heat treat, and the use of the edge.

Maybe I have not said anything new to the OP, but these points need to be reiterated so that the following statement I am about make will be taken in context. S30V is a great steel that is available at a great price. There are worse steels and better steels. D2 is a better steel and AUS8 is a better steel than S30V too. How? If you want an edge that will bend instead of chip away, then use AUS8. It will be easier to get the edge back if you are in the middle of nowhere and only have a rock to get your edge back. D2 is less corrosion resistant, and holds an edge less than S30V. But as a good durable steel that holds an edge for a longer time than AUS8, it is a great choice for the price.

S110V, well it will hold an edge longer but will have a easier to fracture edge. If you are just using a knife for cutting boxes, food, paper, and other things that are more abrasive than difficult to push through, then the S110V is a better steel than S30V. If you want a steel that will not chip when trying to whittle wood, split twigs or cut zip ties for example, then perhaps S30V is better.

IMHO people are obsessing too much over which steel to get if you have a knife as an EDC for general every day tasks. Pick a stainless alloy if you are worried about corrosion, this usually being the better choice for folders, and pick a price you are comfortable with. S30V vs S110V...... not really important IMHO. 440C vs S30V is a better contrast and a bigger price difference too.

One last thing to consider is resale, if you are the type buy/sell/trade. I think, just a guess, that an S110V knife will have a higher percentage resell value than an S30V knife. I am probably wrong.

Would I pay extra for S110V, probably not. Would I pay more for S30V over 440C, almost assuredly yes. Would I choose S110V over D2, maybe.
 
I can only "guess" that the RC range of S30V conforms to that stated by other manufacturers...quite normally 57-59 RC.
It's a good, common steel for the masses and retains good toughness along with reasonable edge-holding capability and ease of sharpening. There are lots of "super-steels" these days, but most casual users need nothing fancier than S30V...or its younger brother S35VN.
 
Danke42 said:
I think in the PM2s it's nice to get one of the new "cool" steels. It's there so why not.

Chipping etc. usually involves the heat treat and geometry along with the material.

But honestly if I was lining up to get a PM2 right now I"d be holding out for the MAXMET to drop.
Click to expand...
Definitely, Maxamet is great. I can't wait for that PM2!
S30V got a bad rap early on being chippy, but now most that are using it know how to HT it properly. HT and blade geometry are the reasons behind the steel being chippy, not the steel itself.
 
Please see what Nathan thinks of S30V. I would trust his word over many on the subject of how certain alloys work in regards to a knife making.

Nathan the Machinist said:
<snip> There is a tendency to say: if some is good, more is better and want to jam as much carbon and alloy and vanadium into the steels and this can ruin them if overdone. It's like making a good soup, too many ingredients and too much salt ruins it. Look at S30V. 4% vanadium? 14% chrome? 1.45% carbon (that's a lot)? Hell, it's only 3/4 iron, it's no wonder it won't hold together in a knife edge. Then look at something like Infi: .3% vanadium, 8% chrome, .6% carbon. He didn't get that the level of performance by packing it full of ingredients, he chose the right alloy, made the right tweaks to it and optimized a heat treat for it. Other steels like 3V start adding some abrasion resistance to the mix at the expense of edge stability so they hold up longer in some applications but not others. Going beyond 3V you can get further gains in abrasion resistance but might start seeing actual edge retention go down due to stability problems in normal use. So finding the "ultimate steel" is always a fun quest but I don't think the answer will be some extreme alloy that's almost unmachinable.

So, all of that said, I don't think the answer to the "holy grail" is in more extreme alloys, I think it is in finding the right alloy and giving it the right treatment.
<snip>
Click to expand...

This quote was taken from a response to a question I posited to Nathan from Corothers Performance Knives. I would wager that many would say that Right now he is one of the best when it comes to eeking the best performance from an alloy and actually seeing what it is capable of.
 
ATJ999 said:
Definitely, Maxamet is great. I can't wait for that PM2!
S30V got a bad rap early on being chippy, but now most that are using it know how to HT it properly. HT and blade geometry are the reasons behind the steel being chippy, not the steel itself.
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So, wider geometry and tempered down to add toughness at the sacrifice of wear resistance.
Got it.
 
sharkattacksw said:
I’m in the market for a new knife (PM2). I mentioned this to a coworker and he said I should get the S110V version because S30V is now considered just an average steel.
Click to expand...

Oh for Scagel's sake....what 2, 3 years ago tops S30V was the hottest sexiest steel ever.

It didn't magically get worse.

Your coworker is a marketing department's dream. smh
 
S30V is a very good overall performance PM steel. It's tough and hold an edge. While I'm a fan of more fancier steel but Spyderco's S30V is still one of my benchmark of steel performance.

I always heard the chipping issue but I never experience one my self. Some people said S35VN is better, improved version for this steel but actually according to Bohler's CATRA and toughness test; S30V did outperform S35VN at both aspect.

S30V even has better edge retention over Vanadis4E and Elmax at similar HRC in CATRA test. Keep in mind that this is a test from third person company not Crucible them self.
 
If I was doing some sort of work that involved all-day cutting and needed extreme edge retention, then I might choose S110v. But for EDC I would choose S30V, because I don't really care for steels that are difficult or time consuming to sharpen.
 
Nothing wrong with s30v at all, especially how spyderco does it. It is a great 'all rounder'.

I prefer ease of sharpening so if it was me I'd pick the s30v version over the s110.
 
The biggest advantage of new steels seems to be to the manufacturer. It helps them sell another knife to existing customers. Got to have it.
I have found S30V to be a good all around steel that is easy to maintain.
 
Aldebaran said:
IMHO people are obsessing too much over which steel to get if you have a knife as an EDC for general every day tasks. Pick a stainless alloy if you are worried about corrosion, this usually being the better choice for folders, and pick a price you are comfortable with. S30V vs S110V...... not really important IMHO. 440C vs S30V is a better contrast and a bigger price difference too.
Click to expand...

Peter Hartwig said:
The biggest advantage of new steels seems to be to the manufacturer. It helps them sell another knife to existing customers. Got to have it.
Click to expand...

marcinek said:
Your coworker is a marketing department's dream.
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Very well-stated and I couldn't agree more.
 
To be honest, choose which Para 2 pleases your eye more.
It is a fantastic and fun knife regardless of which steel you choose. Either will perform just fine in an EDC role.
If I was in your shoes, I'd go with s110v.......I love the blurple scales!!
Good luck and let us know which you decide on!
Joe
 
I bet you this. If there was a publicly held event attended by all the knife geeks around, and a stage where they had 5 unmarked blades at a table, and in each one CTS XHP, S30V, S110V, S35VN and D2, and you had to volunteer to do a blind taste test to identify them after cut tests AND...your reputation was on the line as a "steel guru".....you would see a very, very small number of hands go up to volunteer.

Some people actually buy "super steels' because they have a legitimate need for extended performance in abrasive cutting, some in chopping needing toughness and others for any number of purposeful tasks. And, the rest just like to either collect cool steel types, enjoy saying they have a cooler steel, buy for resale value, or just enjoy pretending to know about steel on forums. OP - there is nothing wrong with S30V if heat treated right with a realistic geometry for the task at hand. Like someone else said, it used to be lusted over, it didn't just magically get bad. There are new steels out there, and they're great too, but the current hot girl at school doesnt become ugly because a new hot girl joins the school. You now just get to look at 2 hot girls instead of one.
 
S sharkattacksw
I think you should try S110V, as you are curious about it and want to try something new. I have PM2 in S110V, which has not chipped in my light normal uses.
I have been a steel snob (and maybe still is) and tried different steels in search for the ultimate edge retention. But I then realized that it does not really matter for me because I sharpen my knives regularly.
 
My main EDC is a Protech TR-5. I pull it out and actually use it maybe once to twice a day..if that.
First off, I love this knife all around. I trust the company to make a quality product first and foremost which they do.
Do I have my favorite steels? Yes.
It's not the first thing I focus on or need to have..though.
 
s30v is not a bad steel at all. it will take a while to sharpen and you may want to use SiC or Diamonds to sharpen it faster.

i dont like to sharpen s30v (but i like s90v so what gives lol) maybe my s30v is very high hrc?. in any case, my S110v manix2 already started chipping, been great until now. in any case, ive heard alot of folks have issues sharpening s110v. search on the forum to see. i have sharpened mine up without issues but i went more obtuse than the factory grind since i didnt want to have any issues. seemed to work fine. did take a while to do tho. certainly not as sharp as the factory grind tho.

my favorite PM2 sofar is the knife works exclusive M4 steel and peel ply carbon fiber scales. it cost a bit more tho.

i would also recommend the PM2 in maxamet when it releases. as you wont need to sharpen it often at all, and if you have a strop its easy to strop back to life (i have a maxamet mule).

The PM2 has several sprint runs. XHP, s35vn, 204p, m390 are ones i would recommend over s30v or s110v for my uses, i just prefer them more. but again, s30v is not a bad steel what so ever. BUT... i would stick to known good brands that have proven s30v like Spyderco and Benchmade and a few others.

you could also think about it like this... if you get a paid membership you can sell your s30v or s110v PM2 on the marketplace and pick another PM2 sprint up later down the line. or just save up another month or two for the one you really want.

Mick_1KRR said:
I bet you this. If there was a publicly held event attended by all the knife geeks around, and a stage where they had 5 unmarked blades at a table, and in each one CTS XHP, S30V, S110V, S35VN and D2, and you had to volunteer to do a blind taste test to identify them after cut tests AND...your reputation was on the line as a "steel guru".....you would see a very, very small number of hands go up to volunteer.
Click to expand...
That is now how it works. but thats a great argument to use to make your case and seem logical. but there are clear indications of differences between steel types for the people who actually do the testing. like Ankerson, Cliff Stamp, and Pete @ CedricAda. of course many more factors are involved than just the steel type (like geometry and heat treat).

in any case, just sitting down to cut stuff trying to blindly tell what it is, is not going to happen.
 
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