Recommendation? Shapton glass stones

[Jon_G]

Total newbie here,

Looking for recommendations for sharpening steels like S90v, CPM-Cru and S30v which are the knifes I currently have. I was looking into the gritomatic sic stones but they're out of stock. I bought some shapton glass stones but I was told by a YouTuber that those won't sharpen my knives at all is this true? The same guy also told me to avoid diamond at all costs no matter how good I ever become at sharpening knives. What do you guys think about that?

So, what stones should I get since the gritomatics are out of stock? Also, do you know if they stock somewhat often or would I be waiting forever if I do wait for those? I am looking to spend less than $100 per stone if possible and would like a 220-320, 1000 and 4000-6000. The 6000 stones I can pay more than $100 for if they're really worth it. Thanks very much for your input!

 

[nevertakeadayoff]

Monocrystalline diamonds are ideal for hard steels (better quality apex and easier to sharpen).
I think the guy who told you that doesn't have an education on this subject and probably had a bad experience as a result. They can rust from water.

I think you mean ceramic stones with a glass backing...?

Good grit range for achieving a not so clean mirror edge on the S30V with few striations. It'll take a bit more time with the S90V. I don't have CPM-Cru. Under ideal conditions, the higher the grit, the longer your knife will remain sharp. Other may argue this - and to be honest, most steels seem to lose their sharpness at about the same rate - initially at least.

What sharpening system are you using?

 

[Jon_G]

Yes, I did mean ceramic stones I just called them that since that is their name but I will refer to them as ceramic stones moving forward.

I also did not get any sharpening system I am just looking into bench stones. I want to do it manually. I don't have anything against sharpening systems I just personally want to do it by hand. I forgot to mention I also bought a strop with a 1 micron diamond compound.

Thanks for your response by the way!

 

[JJ_Colt45]

The Shapton Glass stones come in two variations, the HR and the HC. You can sharpen all of those steels on the Shapton Glass HR stones. They won't sharpen quite as fast as diamonds, but they do give good feedback and are some of my favorite stones.

One thing I'll say is the Shapton Glass stones seem to polish above their ratings in my opinion so just keep that in mind. I often stop with the Shapton 500 for many of my knives. I prefer a bit more of a toothy edge than a highly polished edge for my day to day carry choices.

As far as diamond stones go they have a different feel to them, but someone telling you to avoid them is just their personal preference. They definately have their place and once you get a feel for them they can be a valuable part of your equipment. Best advice I can give for people getting into using them is not to use lots of pressure, just go lightly. And they do require a bit of break in to perform their best.

 

[Jon_G]

The Shapton Glass stones come in two variations, the HR and the HC. You can sharpen all of those steels on the Shapton Glass HR stones. They won't sharpen quite as fast as diamonds, but they do give good feedback and are some of my favorite stones.

One thing I'll say is the Shapton Glass stones seem to polish above their ratings in my opinion so just keep that in mind. I often stop with the Shapton 500 for many of my knives. I prefer a bit more of a toothy edge than a highly polished edge for my day to day carry choices.

As far as diamond stones go they have a different feel to them, but someone telling you to avoid them is just their personal preference. They definately have their place and once you get a feel for them they can be a valuable part of your equipment. Best advice I can give for people getting into using them is not to use lots of pressure, just go lightly. And they do require a bit of break in to perform their best.

The Youtuber that told me shapton glass will never sharpen my knives has been doing videos for a long time so I thought there's no way he didn't know what he was talking about. Based on what you said, I think I will just fine with the glass HR stones then.

I also finding more and more information that telling me to never go with diamond stones was just his personal preference. I just don't want to mess up an expensive knife beyond repair but if I do, it'll all be part of the learning process. I would have bought the gritomatic stones if I could find them but again, I think I'll be fine with the shapton HRs.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

The Youtuber that told me shapton glass will never sharpen my knives has been doing videos for a long time so I thought there's no way he didn't know what he was talking about. Based on what you said, I think I will just fine with the glass HR stones then.

I also finding more and more information that telling me to never go with diamond stones was just his personal preference. I just don't want to mess up an expensive knife beyond repair but if I do, it'll all be part of the learning process. I would have bought the gritomatic stones if I could find them but again, I think I'll be fine with the shapton HRs.

The Shapton Glass won't remove metal as fast as diamonds, but they will work. If you have an incredibly dull blade or if you want to reprofile a high carbide steel, diamonds would be my first choice for those tasks, but to maintain an edge they do well.

If you have mainly high carbide steels you might be better off with diamond plates eventually, but to learn to sharpen I wouldn't want to start there. I would suggest you use some cheaper knives ... even cheap kitchen knives and practice on those on water stones or ceramic like the Shapton Glass. I think if Ihad started on diamonds I may have gotten frustrated.

 

[nevertakeadayoff]

You're right, I wasn't aware they were actually call Shapton Glass.

I hate exccessive repetitive manual labor. Maybe just get diamond for the course grits? Reprofiling S90V manually is gonna suck. I'm biased, tho.

Have fun!!!

 

[chalby]

For high carbide steels you are better off using diamond stones(or CBN or similar). I would question anyone saying not to use them for those steels (S90V, S30V etc).

Any of your ceramic stones like Shaptons etc will work but you will wear out your stones relatively quickly and you will likely struggle to get a fine, long lasting edge because of the volume of hard carbides in those steels. It will likely take you much longer as well. Having said that I know a few sharpeners who sharpen with diamond and finish with a super fine ceramic and get great results.

Even SiC stones aren't a great choice unless you are only using coarse stones.

 

[Jon_G]

For high carbide steels you are better off using diamond stones(or CBN or similar). I would question anyone saying not to use them for those steels (S90V, S30V etc).

Any of your ceramic stones like Shaptons etc will work but you will wear out your stones relatively quickly and you will likely struggle to get a fine, long lasting edge because of the volume of hard carbides in those steels. It will likely take you much longer as well. Having said that I know a few sharpeners who sharpen with diamond and finish with a super fine ceramic and get great results.

Even SiC stones aren't a great choice unless you are only using coarse stones.

Awesome thanks. I don't know why but in my head I wanted to keep every stone the same brand. Stupid way of thinking I guess. So let's say I want to sharpen a s90v. I start with diamond, then what do I go to next (brand and material) that's in like a 1000 grit? After that, what do you recommend (also brand and material) in like a 4-6k?

Thanks again you guy are great.

 

[Ajack60]

I would ask what are you after with your edge ? Are you looking for a good toothy edge for work or a polished edge for showing off ?
I use diamonds and rarely use the 1200 grit stone. Typically, I stop at 600 grit and strop afterward. That gives me a good edge that has some bite to it. For me, I don’t gain better performance beyond 600 grit for what I do with my knives. I feel like the extra time with higher grits isn’t worth it.
Don’t get me wrong, a nice polished edge looks sweet and cuts well, the type of work I do really isn’t beneficial to a polished edge.

 

[Jon_G]

I would ask what are you after with your edge ? Are you looking for a good toothy edge for work or a polished edge for showing off ?
I use diamonds and rarely use the 1200 grit stone. Typically, I stop at 600 grit and strop afterward. That gives me a good edge that has some bite to it. For me, I don’t gain better performance beyond 600 grit for what I do with my knives. I feel like the extra time with higher grits isn’t worth it.
Don’t get me wrong, a nice polished edge looks sweet and cuts well, the type of work I do really isn’t beneficial to a polished edge.

Jesus christ I was not expecting to learn this much in one day. I truly appreciate all of the information.

One of the S90v knives I have is a kestrel mountain caper. That one I think would benefit from an extremely sharp edge to cut an animal open. The mini adamas in CPM-Cru I don't need to split hairs with.

For the S90v, would I go diamond all the way to 1500 and then whatever ceramic after that, or would I go diamond at 240-320, then maybe silicon carbide at 1000 and then ceramic?

 

[KenHash]

Total newbie here,

Looking for recommendations for sharpening steels like S90v, CPM-Cru and S30v which are the knifes I currently have. I was looking into the gritomatic sic stones but they're out of stock. I bought some shapton glass stones but I was told by a YouTuber that those won't sharpen my knives at all is this true? The same guy also told me to avoid diamond at all costs no matter how good I ever become at sharpening knives. What do you guys think about that?

I have been sharpening knives with water stones from before Youtube existed. Some newer powder steels do require diamond. There is absolutely no need to avoid them. But I've had no trouble with S30V on ceramic stones. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jon_G]

I have been sharpening knives with water stones from before Youtube existed. Some newer powder steels do require diamond. There is absolutely no need to avoid them. But I've had no trouble with S30V on ceramic stones. Just my 2 cents.

Thank you Ken. I guess my problem was that I didn't understand that there are many different options and not just one type of stone or one type of material to do it all. I have learned so much in just a few days but still have a lot to learn. This is exciting lol

 

[chalby]

Awesome thanks. I don't know why but in my head I wanted to keep every stone the same brand. Stupid way of thinking I guess. So let's say I want to sharpen a s90v. I start with diamond, then what do I go to next (brand and material) that's in like a 1000 grit? After that, what do you recommend (also brand and material) in like a 4-6k?

Thanks again you guy are great.

TBH, I wouldn't worry too much about after diamond stones. You will get a shaving sharp edge with 600 grit diamond plate if that's all you have. Just experiment and enjoy; you'll find what works and doesn't work.

I have been sharpening knives with water stones from before Youtube existed. Some newer powder steels do require diamond. There is absolutely no need to avoid them. But I've had no trouble with S30V on ceramic stones. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed. S30V is probably around the limit of what ceramic stones can handle OK for carbide volume. I would still use diamond personally though.

 

[UncleBoots]

Jesus christ I was not expecting to learn this much in one day. I truly appreciate all of the information.

One of the S90v knives I have is a kestrel mountain caper. That one I think would benefit from an extremely sharp edge to cut an animal open. The mini adamas in CPM-Cru I don't need to split hairs with.

For the S90v, would I go diamond all the way to 1500 and then whatever ceramic after that, or would I go diamond at 240-320, then maybe silicon carbide at 1000 and then ceramic?

I have many Shapton Glass stones. They are wonderful. I use them for sharpening stainless and carbon steel kitchen knives, and for prefinish steps on razors. I do not use them on supersteel knives. The most exotic steel they see is SG2.

For supersteel knives, I use diamonds. I strongly prefer stones to plates, but that's a personal preference, related more to my own sharpening pleasure than to effectiveness.

I do want to correct a common misconception regarding sharpness for use. I have not cut an animal open, but I've done a lot of cooking, and it is not true that you need a high-grit stone to do the most effective cutting. The reasons to sharpen a knife used on flesh to anything more than about 3K are:

- Because you can
- For fun
- You're doing something really delicate like cutting sushi, and want the perfect surface texture on the thing you're cutting.

The most effective, usable, and lasting edge for your cutting is not going to be a hair-whittling edge. It's going to be a toothy edge, from a stone in the grit range 500-1500. You may not believe this. I didn't. It turns out that I wasn't spending enough time getting the most out of the stones in this range. A properly sharpened 500-1500 grit edge is extraordinarily effective, and is the most desirable edge for most purposes, but it can take some time with the stones to learn how to produce such an edge.

 

[nickycat]

Those shapton HS stones you bought are excellent. As others have said here, figure out what your end goal is and then you can more easily pick a set of stones. In my opinion, the best synthetic water stones available are Sigma Power Select II. Excellent feel, very fast cutting and resists dishing relatively well.

 

[Jon_G]

I have many Shapton Glass stones. They are wonderful. I use them for sharpening stainless and carbon steel kitchen knives, and for prefinish steps on razors. I do not use them on supersteel knives. The most exotic steel they see is SG2.

For supersteel knives, I use diamonds. I strongly prefer stones to plates, but that's a personal preference, related more to my own sharpening pleasure than to effectiveness.

I do want to correct a common misconception regarding sharpness for use. I have not cut an animal open, but I've done a lot of cooking, and it is not true that you need a high-grit stone to do the most effective cutting. The reasons to sharpen a knife used on flesh to anything more than about 3K are:

- Because you can
- For fun
- You're doing something really delicate like cutting sushi, and want the perfect surface texture on the thing you're cutting.

The most effective, usable, and lasting edge for your cutting is not going to be a hair-whittling edge. It's going to be a toothy edge, from a stone in the grit range 500-1500. You may not believe this. I didn't. It turns out that I wasn't spending enough time getting the most out of the stones in this range. A properly sharpened 500-1500 grit edge is extraordinarily effective, and is the most desirable edge for most purposes, but it can take some time with the stones to learn how to produce such an edge.

I would have come to this page and started knife sharpening long ago if I knew I'd get all of this great information. I just didn't want to do it because I feared I would either mess up my knives or I would never be good at it.

I was going to return the glass stones but I do have expensive kitchen knives that I will use those stones for. I bought the 320,1000,4000,6000. I will return the 4 and 6 then if a toothier will give me better cutting.

I have gone from wanting to buy a 16k, to a 10k, to an 8k, then a 6, and now based on all of the info I've learned I think I'll go as low as like 3000 for my hard steels lol. Saves me more money too!

I could not find a diamond stone that goes up to 3000 which is what I want to stop at just because I like the way it looks to be honest. I think I'm gonna go with a sigma ii in 3000. Can't thank you guys enough!

 

[Jon_G]

Those shapton HS stones you bought are excellent. As others have said here, figure out what your end goal is and then you can more easily pick a set of stones. In my opinion, the best synthetic water stones available are Sigma Power Select II. Excellent feel, very fast cutting and resists dishing relatively well.

So I bought some double sided venev which is all I could find for now. I got a 240-400 and a 800-1200 which should be more than enough to get an awesome edge based on all the info I received. To finish it off I bought a sigma ii 3000. I can't wait to test them out!

 

[Jon_G]

By the way, I used my shapton glass for my first time on my Wusthof Nakiri just a few minutes ago and I damn near cried from the hair splitting edge I left on that lol. I want to say that it's sharper than the day I received. I went with a 320 then hit it with a 1k then finished it with a 4000. I do like the final outcome for this knife with that setup. I don't think I have a need for the 6k so I'm returning that one. My Wusthof chef knife is up next

 

[chalby]

So I bought some double sided venev which is all I could find for now. I got a 240-400 and a 800-1200 which should be more than enough to get an awesome edge based on all the info I received. To finish it off I bought a sigma ii 3000. I can't wait to test them out!

Just to give you some further info: I've heard Venev use different grit ratings depending on where they are sold, but my Venev stones use the FEPA-F grit rating system. I'm not 100% sure but I think Sigma is JIS or something similar.

If so, the Venevs are more like F240 = ~300JIS; F400 = ~600/700; F800 = ~2000; F1200 = ~4000.

Grit ratings aren't always directly comparable.