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Silent and deadly.
- Thread starter D7reamers
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2001
- Messages
- 227
Heckler & Koch PSG-1 w/suppressor and sub-sonic rounds at 500 yards would probably work.
Oh. You mean in person? Deadly I'm sure someone else will answer. Silence depends on terrain. Concrete, tarmac, grass, autumnal leaves on the ground, gravel, and wood could all be expected in any urban/suburban environment.
I've never yet met anyone who's silent on gravel or dried leaves, but for the others soft-soled sneakers would be a good start. People I've known have tried various techniques, I've tried various techniques, but true silence is nigh-on impossible (BS legends about Ninjas notwithstanding), however in urban/suburban environments your best bet would be to use other noises to cover your approach. Other noises are always present (at least where I live), cars, radios, etc, and it only takes a minimal amount of noise to cover the sound of anyone's footsteps.
Danny
Oh. You mean in person? Deadly I'm sure someone else will answer. Silence depends on terrain. Concrete, tarmac, grass, autumnal leaves on the ground, gravel, and wood could all be expected in any urban/suburban environment.
I've never yet met anyone who's silent on gravel or dried leaves, but for the others soft-soled sneakers would be a good start. People I've known have tried various techniques, I've tried various techniques, but true silence is nigh-on impossible (BS legends about Ninjas notwithstanding), however in urban/suburban environments your best bet would be to use other noises to cover your approach. Other noises are always present (at least where I live), cars, radios, etc, and it only takes a minimal amount of noise to cover the sound of anyone's footsteps.
Danny
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2001
- Messages
- 107
Well,
The first thing you need is a BIG bowl of chili...
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
dion
The first thing you need is a BIG bowl of chili...
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
dion
For me, years of ballet and tap dancec training. Yes I know tap dancing is noisy, but it teaches very precise control of the muscles of the feet. The whole thing in general has taught me how to get my muscles to work together and how to be light on my feet. Long ago lost count of the times I'll be walking along beside a person without them even knowing I'm there.
We all practice/train for "what if"...
I do like to take my training for "what if" a step or two beyond basic, street defensive situations...
There is an old saying, knowledge is power.
I'd like to think that powerful knowledge is even more power.
And power is, afterall, that basic craving all humans have, power to feed themselves, power to keep warm, power to get from point a to point b, power to survive, some even try to tap higher power through meditation or magick or whatever.
Personally the kind of knowledge I like is fighting, combat, destructive, weapons, survival, knowledge for the most part.
So... those in the know... speak up about this please... I look forward to hearing.
I do like to take my training for "what if" a step or two beyond basic, street defensive situations...
There is an old saying, knowledge is power.
I'd like to think that powerful knowledge is even more power.
And power is, afterall, that basic craving all humans have, power to feed themselves, power to keep warm, power to get from point a to point b, power to survive, some even try to tap higher power through meditation or magick or whatever.
Personally the kind of knowledge I like is fighting, combat, destructive, weapons, survival, knowledge for the most part.
So... those in the know... speak up about this please... I look forward to hearing.
Many years ago, I read "Hunting the hard Way" by, as I recall, Howard Hill, the famous archer. ( Hill favored the English-type longbow, and was dismayed by modern recurve bows. The book was written long before the appearance of compound boys.)
Anyway, Hill did extensive hunting/stalking with a Seminole Indian, who used a stalking technique wherin you never transferred weight to the leading foot till it was in place on clear ground. You could even use small foot movements to "clear" the spot carefully before stepping. Needless to say, this is extremely slow, and Hill observed that however carefully he tried to cover a given piece of ground, the Indian always took much longer!
A major noisemaker is modern clothing. Many synthetic fabrics are quite noisy, especially the nylon/taffeta/goretex type stuff so common in recreational and outdoor clothing.
A final note is breathing- a fairly standard technique is to keep the mouth wide open so as to minimize breath sounds.
Anyway, Hill did extensive hunting/stalking with a Seminole Indian, who used a stalking technique wherin you never transferred weight to the leading foot till it was in place on clear ground. You could even use small foot movements to "clear" the spot carefully before stepping. Needless to say, this is extremely slow, and Hill observed that however carefully he tried to cover a given piece of ground, the Indian always took much longer!
A major noisemaker is modern clothing. Many synthetic fabrics are quite noisy, especially the nylon/taffeta/goretex type stuff so common in recreational and outdoor clothing.
A final note is breathing- a fairly standard technique is to keep the mouth wide open so as to minimize breath sounds.
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2001
- Messages
- 1,794
I've read in a couple of places that if you fixate on someone as you sneak up on them, they can more easily "sense" your presence. Take it for what it's worth...
Also, from my practice in sneaking up on the barn cats at our vet hospital, when you go through a doorway and there is sound, light, or wind coming through, it may be noticeable to anyone inside or nearby. The light (shadows) is obvious, but some might not think of the change in wind noise or blocking of sounds from outside. The key is to move very slowly, so the sounds are changed very slowly.
And another thing from my talks in S-D class, and my experiences on stalking fellow guards in a dark JC Penney warehouse a long time ago: two or more people are a lot easier to sneak up on than one!
Man, you can really scare the p*** outta a new guy with a loud "hungry pterodactyl" yell from the next aisle in pitch dark conditions...
RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!
New guard, whispering on phone: "There's something out here!"
My supervisor, on the PA: "Officer Spaulding, return to the panel. OFFICER SPAULDING, RETURN TO THE PANEL NOW!"
Karl
Also, from my practice in sneaking up on the barn cats at our vet hospital, when you go through a doorway and there is sound, light, or wind coming through, it may be noticeable to anyone inside or nearby. The light (shadows) is obvious, but some might not think of the change in wind noise or blocking of sounds from outside. The key is to move very slowly, so the sounds are changed very slowly.
And another thing from my talks in S-D class, and my experiences on stalking fellow guards in a dark JC Penney warehouse a long time ago: two or more people are a lot easier to sneak up on than one!
Man, you can really scare the p*** outta a new guy with a loud "hungry pterodactyl" yell from the next aisle in pitch dark conditions...
RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!
New guard, whispering on phone: "There's something out here!"
My supervisor, on the PA: "Officer Spaulding, return to the panel. OFFICER SPAULDING, RETURN TO THE PANEL NOW!"
Karl
Gary W. Graley
“Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Mar 2, 1999
- Messages
- 27,397
<center>
that of course goes along with the...
I would also venture to say how you place your steps, heel or toe first type of deal, clothing of course and the Deadly part? I'd be opting to not be deadly but outta there when you can!
G2
oh wait, it's your mom you wanna sneak up on?
Then one trick is to SET the scene up so she will be focused on something when she walks into the room, something that normally isn't there or just out of kilter, like a picture tilted hanging on the wall, as she walks in, that would direct her attention, this is where you come in..., so you can sneak up and scare last nights dinner out of her...or whatever meal she is almost done digesting...
When you can walk the Rice Paper and not leave a mark...
that of course goes along with the...
</center>When you can remove the pepple from my hand...
I would also venture to say how you place your steps, heel or toe first type of deal, clothing of course and the Deadly part? I'd be opting to not be deadly but outta there when you can!
G2
oh wait, it's your mom you wanna sneak up on?
Then one trick is to SET the scene up so she will be focused on something when she walks into the room, something that normally isn't there or just out of kilter, like a picture tilted hanging on the wall, as she walks in, that would direct her attention, this is where you come in..., so you can sneak up and scare last nights dinner out of her...or whatever meal she is almost done digesting...
Geesh Karl, you really enjoy trying to scare the crap out of people don't you? Freaking out newbie coworkers, repeated and sudden yells in the SD classroom, the knife in a bag thing (by the way, I was on to that before you ripped the hell out of that poor box 
), taking the class upstairs to visit the judo people through the spooky weird staircase, and then there was that poor pedestrian who happened to wander by our FIST suit in the final... kinda wish I'd heard what he told his roommates when he got home.
), taking the class upstairs to visit the judo people through the spooky weird staircase, and then there was that poor pedestrian who happened to wander by our FIST suit in the final... kinda wish I'd heard what he told his roommates when he got home. 
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,792
This is as close as I have seen to mehtods I employ. I'm 200 pounds and you cannot move that much weight all at once. Each step is a new exercise. Each step is a separate event and an opportunity for compromise; an opportunity for failure notwithstanding the success of the past 100 steps.
Though wool has been my friend for years, I have become enamoured with polarfleece and its competitors. Using gusts of wind, animals and other sounds to mask yours also helps. Patience counts; this is slow-go!
Just as having confidence in the three S's of concealment (shine, shadow and silhouette), silence and patience will pay their dividends. Moving into the wind not only helps with scent, but also with noise as well.
Don't be jerky. Keep you movements minimal and purposeful. Move like the wind: smooth, free, anonimous yet forceful.
Happy hunting!
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2001
- Messages
- 850
Originally posted by survivor
This is an urban survival forum not a wannabe commando forum. If you must know how to saliently approach someone I have one answer USE THE FORCE D7Reamers!!
I don't want to be a commando, survivor, let a alone a wannabe.
I was thinking more along the lines that stealth, if uses correctly, could help you out in self-defense and possibly avoid a costly legal battle with the local D.A's office.
Deadly force should only be used if you run out of options or get trapped into a corner.
Timber, one of the best stalking teachers I've come across, says the most important attribute is leg strength. Nothing complex, just hard- practice a lot and you'll get strong legs so that when your target looks up, you are strong enough to freeze in midair on one leg, while off balance.
I was out stalking from 03:00 to 04:30 this morning because it snowed last night. There were no tracks yet. Snow is usually loud (and it was early today too) so practice indoors with a motion detector light. Stalk past it without turning it on. It works on the outdoor motion detector lights too. Many times I've had to run into my home when I tripped the motion detector light in my driveway, and suddenly stood spotlighted in the middle of my driveway after midnight. When you can do that stalk the other people in your home.
When you get close, sometimes it helps to crawl. Also look away...not at the target. How many times have you felt that you were being watched, only to turn and find out that you were being watched. I believe our eye, or brain, transmits something that other people and animals can sense. Close you eyes to narrow slits, less white shows.
When I have to cross an open area I always worried whether it was better to hurry or go slowly. I have come to feel it is better to go slowly and possibly crawl. I'm always worried that someone will spot me crawling and I'll look stupid.
It's fun, isn't it.
Take care,
bug
I was out stalking from 03:00 to 04:30 this morning because it snowed last night. There were no tracks yet. Snow is usually loud (and it was early today too) so practice indoors with a motion detector light. Stalk past it without turning it on. It works on the outdoor motion detector lights too. Many times I've had to run into my home when I tripped the motion detector light in my driveway, and suddenly stood spotlighted in the middle of my driveway after midnight. When you can do that stalk the other people in your home.
When you get close, sometimes it helps to crawl. Also look away...not at the target. How many times have you felt that you were being watched, only to turn and find out that you were being watched. I believe our eye, or brain, transmits something that other people and animals can sense. Close you eyes to narrow slits, less white shows.
When I have to cross an open area I always worried whether it was better to hurry or go slowly. I have come to feel it is better to go slowly and possibly crawl. I'm always worried that someone will spot me crawling and I'll look stupid.
It's fun, isn't it.
Take care,
bug
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2001
- Messages
- 1,794
The "angry face" that Survivor used after his message puzzles me. I think D7's topic is great. Without the "angry face," his comments would have just been poking fun at D7, which is of course, essential.
I wonder sometimes if what I post will be seen as too juvenile, stupid, or misinterpretable, but I don't worry too much about it. I figure we need widely disparate views and questions, if only to keep this area from becoming boring.
The responses of other members to this topic should illustrate that others agree with me.
Maybe Survivor has had a bad experience with being snuck up on!
The only thing missing here is CJ. I hope he's able to weigh in on this soon. I don't always agree with him, but I always seriously consider what he has to say. And while his advice may not apply to my situation, it could also be that I'm too hardheaded and set in my ways to accept it!
Karl
PS I just reread D7's original topic post. I think Survivor probably took offense at the "yet deadly" part. D7 should have used a "cheesy face" when he wrote that. Oh, we don't HAVE cheesy faces, do we? D7 should go immediately to his kitchen and eat a pound of cheese, then. That should teach him!
I wonder sometimes if what I post will be seen as too juvenile, stupid, or misinterpretable, but I don't worry too much about it. I figure we need widely disparate views and questions, if only to keep this area from becoming boring.
The responses of other members to this topic should illustrate that others agree with me.
Maybe Survivor has had a bad experience with being snuck up on!
The only thing missing here is CJ. I hope he's able to weigh in on this soon. I don't always agree with him, but I always seriously consider what he has to say. And while his advice may not apply to my situation, it could also be that I'm too hardheaded and set in my ways to accept it!
Karl
PS I just reread D7's original topic post. I think Survivor probably took offense at the "yet deadly" part. D7 should have used a "cheesy face" when he wrote that. Oh, we don't HAVE cheesy faces, do we? D7 should go immediately to his kitchen and eat a pound of cheese, then. That should teach him!
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2000
- Messages
- 346
Wear moccasins
I dont mean the type you buy in stores I mean the real indian type with leather soles. I made a pair for cowboy action shooting and are they quiet.
Knifesmith
I dont mean the type you buy in stores I mean the real indian type with leather soles. I made a pair for cowboy action shooting and are they quiet.
Knifesmith
Buy them here-
http://www.arrowmoc.com/index.html
I have three pair. They are invaluable. Get the single thickness soles to better feel the ground. Use something else in snow or ice. The smooth, flat soles slip badly in snow and ice.
Quiet clothes, like wool, are best. I leave my Gore-Tex indoors unless it is raining. A walking stick is handy to stop your fall when your balance begins to go.
When you close to near trees don't get too close. Thats where the birds are sleeping.
Stop more than move. e.g. Three steps, stop 2 minutes, three steps, stop 2 minutes. Every five or ten minutes, sit down for five minutes or so. Begin the cycle over. I've had deer, coyote and skunk walk by me while I'm sitting, without knowing I'm there. Don't pass up the sitting.
If you make a noise freeze for 30 seconds before moving on.
Believe you ears more in the night. If you think you hear something you probably do. Amplify your hearing by cupping your hands behind your ears and scanning. The cupping provides a very noticeable directional hearing increase.
Doors are a big giveaway. They are noisy. People tend to not begin to practice sound discipline until they are outside- and have loudly shut their door. When you hear a door, cup your ears, rotate to locate the proper direction and realize that a person or dog/cat is now outside with you - and you know they are there but they don't know you are there! When you go in shut the door quietly.
Dye a few of your hankerchiefs black/grey/olice drab. But try to develope the discipline to not use them, or slap bugs, when you're on stalk.
Take care,
bug
http://www.arrowmoc.com/index.html
I have three pair. They are invaluable. Get the single thickness soles to better feel the ground. Use something else in snow or ice. The smooth, flat soles slip badly in snow and ice.
Quiet clothes, like wool, are best. I leave my Gore-Tex indoors unless it is raining. A walking stick is handy to stop your fall when your balance begins to go.
When you close to near trees don't get too close. Thats where the birds are sleeping.
Stop more than move. e.g. Three steps, stop 2 minutes, three steps, stop 2 minutes. Every five or ten minutes, sit down for five minutes or so. Begin the cycle over. I've had deer, coyote and skunk walk by me while I'm sitting, without knowing I'm there. Don't pass up the sitting.
If you make a noise freeze for 30 seconds before moving on.
Believe you ears more in the night. If you think you hear something you probably do. Amplify your hearing by cupping your hands behind your ears and scanning. The cupping provides a very noticeable directional hearing increase.
Doors are a big giveaway. They are noisy. People tend to not begin to practice sound discipline until they are outside- and have loudly shut their door. When you hear a door, cup your ears, rotate to locate the proper direction and realize that a person or dog/cat is now outside with you - and you know they are there but they don't know you are there! When you go in shut the door quietly.
Dye a few of your hankerchiefs black/grey/olice drab. But try to develope the discipline to not use them, or slap bugs, when you're on stalk.
Take care,
bug
