So About Those Carbon Steels...

I really don't like carbon steels. My main practical use for my traditional folders is cutting fruit for my kids, and I really dislike the flavor/smell that carbon steel imparts (lots of people really don't perceive the smell/taste, so YMMV. Also, apparently patina reduces the strength of the reaction). I also don't like the look of patina. There really is nothing that I like more about carbon steel than stainless.

The only reason that I own any carbon steel blades is because of the annual forum knives and the fact that GEC doesn't like using steels that I like. Other than forum knives, my only carbon blades are a KABar, a Mora, and my GEC Whaler. The Mora is a knife I use for wood working. The GEC Whaler I have because, frankly, no one makes a better whaler than GEC (it is a stunning piece of cutler's art) and GEC won't make one in stainless. If GEC made a stainless whaler I would hop on it right away.
 
Your post is about carbon steels not just 1095. Its not easy being so generic as there are lots of them.

I personally would swap all of the carbon steel knives in my collection to stainless in a heartbeat.

I have read on traditional tools forums that some people’s sweat causes more rust than others. I believe this may be true as I seem to have enormous trouble with carbon knives rusting if I put them away after handling without a very thorough and careful wipe down and oiling.
 
Just a minor thing, most Custom makers use mainly stainless although many will offer carbons to order. A lot of people talk about patina and its beauty, it certainly can be the case, they also point out that stainless by definition is incapable of this. With stainless blades I ALWAYS prefer brushed, matte,as ground etc to high polish 'crocus' effects.On polished stainless, etches, scratches, sharpening errors all show up rather ugly-which is why I like the brushed effect. Last year's Forum Knife in 154 has very nice matte blades and if all my traditionals were magicked to this overnight I don't think I'd be despairing:D One problem I have with carbon and patina is the weird darkening and fouling you get on the tang by the pivot, you often get this ugly 'arc' mark that is difficult to clean off.

But like I say, minor ;)
 
Reitwagen said:
I feel that traditional pocket knives would benefit from blades made of modern stainless steel. I'm no steel nerd, but choosing between surgical stainless and carbon steel...really? Those of you who like your patina could still have it , I'd just like to have one more option. I'd buy a Copperlock in 154CM in an instant.
Click to expand...

I have to agree. I've always avoided carbon steels. Even steels like BD1, BD1N, or even well done 8Cr are pretty inexpensive, widely available and make for fine EDC blades.
 
Camillus said:
Your post is about carbon steels not just 1095. Its not easy being so generic as there are lots of them.

I personally would swap all of the carbon steel knives in my collection to stainless in a heartbeat.

I have read on traditional tools forums that some people’s sweat causes more rust than others. I believe this may be true as I seem to have enormous trouble with carbon knives rusting if I put them away after handling without a very thorough and careful wipe down and oiling.
Click to expand...

Understood. I tried to keep the overall post generic, but I mentioned 1095 specifically because I believe that is the variety GEC uses.
 
I have an old sock that is now pretty well coated in mineral oil from wiping down knives. When I’ve used a knife or it’s gotten wet, it takes all of 3 seconds to wipe it down quick after taking it out of my pocket at night.
 
I like stainless steel blades but I like carbon steel blades too. Just pick a knife you like and buy it; then use it and keep it sharp, wipe it off every now and then (especially if it gets wet or bloody) oil and keep using it. Eventually it will have patina, spiderwebs, pepper spots, etc. Just part of the charm. Like a blue steel rifle or shotgun - if you use it eventually it gets some wear - that's just part of it. OH
 
r redden said:
I have also read these type threads both here and other forums I participate on and they seem to always evolve around patina and preferences of the individual as opposed to a definitive, fact based reason why one is superior to the other which leads me to believe most folks don't really know if one is actually better than the other I don't that's for sure.
Click to expand...
That's very true.

I hate oxidation or what people call patina, to me it is one step away from rust and it makes a knife look neglected. Yet some people deliberately stick a perfectly good knife in warm cider or leave fruit residue on it. Then they call it beautiful. It's a concept I can not wrap my mind around. My preference is different than their preference, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The discussion really gets muddied when someone says, it was good enough for my grandfather and father, therefore it is good enough for me and should be good enough for you PERIOD.

Eli Chaps Use what you want and ignore what others say. You won't know if you will like carbon until you use it. You're right "GEC has some gorgeous offerings but I've been reluctant based on the 1095." Watch GEC find one you like and give it a try, If you like it that's great. If not, GEC's will sell quickly on here or the bay.
 
We are on a knife forum so it is safe to assume that those of us here who frequent said forum are going to be rather opinionated when it comes to steel choices. I do not find anything wrong with that, I find it rather interesting to see what the varying preferences are.

I've been involved with muzzle loaders for many years (traditional ones). Good old fashioned black powder is incredibly corrosive and will rust a barrel up in short order if one can't be bothered to maintain it. I simply apply the same principles to my knives. Some like a worry free steel and I totally get that. For me though, the maintenance (small as it might be) has become second nature. I do not have rust problems, I do not mind patina (it is the natural course a high carbon blade takes), I appreciate the ease of sharpening (particularly in the field), and I enjoy a properly heat treated steel that takes a keen edge in short order.

I also do not judge others for their preferences when they differ from mine. As has been said more than a few times already, get what appeals to you, if it doesn't work out, consider it a lesson learned and try something different. I can't expect my philosophies and practices to be the same as everyone else nor should anyone expect theirs to be mine.

Live and let live. While you are at it, enjoy it! :D
 
Last edited:
Since we are talking carbon and SS and I know we all like pictures I grabbed my kitchen knives they are a good example. I know they aren't normal kitchen knives but they have one thing in common they all went into service pretty much unused a year ago. When I moved into my apartment I just grabbed some knives from my collection to use daily in the kitchen. I wash these knives in dawn as soon as I am finished using them then dry them and put them up. The carbon gets a very light swipe of mineral oil. This is what they look like now with a years worth of kitchen duty.
The knives are a Buck 119 420 HC Stainless, an Enzo necker with 12C27 Stainless Mora some kind of Carbon and two GEC H20"s 1095 Carbon.

iqK5RUf.jpg
 
I just received a Lansky turn box sharpener today. It has medium and fine ceramic rods that fit into slots drilled at either 25 or 20 degrees. It's essentially a very low budget sharp maker (I paid about $12 USD). I immediately put it to the test on two of my Case knives, my CV peanut and my stainless teardrop. It blew me away. I got literal shaving sharp edges on both after about 20 passes on each side with the fine rods at 20 degrees. I can tell no difference between the steels. I've been a proponent of CV steel being easier to sharpen, but in this case, there is no discernible difference.

So, I recommend picking a knife pattern you like regardless of whether it's carbon or stainless.
 
PaulS. PaulS. I like to sharpen and stainless blades can be brought up to extreme edges and the low alloy stuff like Tru Sharp are very easy to get there. So I agree.

And thanks for your service. I was a USAF Law Enforcement/Air Base Defense troop from '88-99. :)
 
Eli Chaps said:
PaulS. PaulS. And thanks for your service. I was a USAF Law Enforcement/Air Base Defense troop from '88-99. :)
Click to expand...

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Thank you for your service too! I enlisted with no guaranteed job, so I ended up as a Security Specialist for my first 3.5 years. I didn't like walking around planes in Nebraska for 8 hours a day regardless of the weather, so I cross trained into Imagery Analysis as soon as I could. I had a varied and interesting career after that, retiring after about 20.5 years. I worked another 10 years as a defense contractor before retiring for good.
 
I use both, however one of my favorite traditional knife lets off a bit of a metallic smell when I cut fruit. I don’t think it would bother most people however, I have a sensitive sense of smell thus it can get a bit annoying for me.
 
Honestly, it takes a little work to get some red rust on a blade if you're paying attention. Wiping the blade on the pants does a good job of allowing patina to form while keeping "kosher". I've cut up an apple, wiped the blade on my jeans, folded the knife, and then not rinsed it until the next day, and it was a little darkened but otherwise fine.

There are some stainless steels that act a lot like carbon steels when it comes to sharpening. Carbon and tool steels will pick up corrosion, but unless you just leave it wet, it's probably not going to suffer any egregious corrosive damage. If it does, it's fairly easy to refinish a blade.

I used to have ideas about how I wanted most of my knives to be stainless, and that, because I live in a super humid rainforest, that I'd be plagued by an upkeep regimen that would somehow get out of my control. Wrong. There's a homeostasis that the corrosion finds. Beyond that, I can Flitz (polish the blade with a polishing compound that removes the patina) every so often if I like. After a blade has patina-ed, it usually corrodes quicker than it did initially, however it finds the same homeostasis, unless I intentionally subject the blade to more extensive corrosion.

Good on'ya for asking these questions, too. There are a lot of ideas that echo around out there only because people continue to speak them, and not because they describe what transpires on the material plane.
 
traumkommode said:
...
Good on'ya for asking these questions, too. There are a lot of ideas that echo around out there only because people continue to speak them, and not because they describe what transpires on the material plane.
Click to expand...

When you have a wealth of knowledge like this and people who kindly offer their insight, it would be crazy not to ask questions!

Thank you all for answering. :)
 
Here is an example of a 1095 Carbon Steel knife that gets used pretty regularly. It has a lot of pocket time and has performed a lot of cutting duties. Granted, I don't cut food with it outside of the occasional block of cheese, and I live in an area with a favorable climate. You can see the scratches and abuse, but the blades haven't turned black and there is no rust. There are a few little pepper spots that I could probably Flitz off if I cared.



Here is another 1095 blade that has also seen a lot of pocket time, but hasn't been used very hard. It still looks almost new despite being made almost six years ago.

 
Last edited:
My preference is stainless, but if I see a knife that I like and it is not I won't let that put me off. I only rarely use any pocketknife on food, and if there's going to be blood and innards I'll most likely use a fixed blade. Having both stainless and non-stainless knives I can choose whichever I feel happens to be more appropriate for a situation. Any vegetable cutting we do will be with kitchen knives; some of those are plain cheap carbon steel, but they get used too
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top