Spyderco Cricket

Well, not to get off the subject, but I had a question I wanted to ask you. Do you use a Hewlett Packard Scanner? Because they have duel scan technology, and their scanners will photograph a knife in black and white if you do not put some color in the back ground to get it to scan in color. Of course you can only photograph an object that reflects light, and a lot of the material on knives absorb more than they reflect. Can you put anything in the plastic, that would cause them to photograph better, that is to reflect more light? Of course most people prefer a material that will reflect light, and allow light to pass through it(transparent), but I guess that would not be very practial for knives.

>> John - How does one make them harder to copy?

Oh, you know where I got that from? Blade Magazines Tek Knife edition. They had an artical on Ray Appleton, and how no one seems to be able to copy his designs, much less his mechanisms. Just a thought.

I just try to keep far enough ahead of them, that I make my money and go onto something else, before they catch up with me. I run my tests, and when I see something selling I order up my inventory and flood the market, and by the time they figure out what is going on, its to late for them to make any money. Thanks, JohnR7
 
Smoke - No, haven't seen it. Guess somebody figured it'd sell.

John - Keeping ahead is the same conclusion that we reached. Flooding the market is difficult with limited production capacity.

We have to cover design, engineering, tooling and marketing costs, and it would be nice to make a profit before giving up the bulk of the profit to the hyenas & Jackyls.

We're always woking on it, but often it's like fighting mosquitoes trying to suck your blood. discouraging.

sal
 
The problem of dealing with countries where "intellectual property" is not protected by their legal systems, either on the books or in practice or both, is of course a lot bigger than the knife industry. Ask anybody in the music or software business. At least some of them sometimes have the clout to "diplomatic pressure" on their side.

Now and then I get e-mail from guys in Sialkot, Pakistan, offering me dirt-cheap deals on all kinds of fine knives, like Bucks and Pumas. Shameless.

I got similar e-mail once from a manufacturer in China. So I told them I'd like to buy some commemoratives for the heros and martyrs of Tienanmen Square, and sent them some material from Human Rights Watch and some Chinese exile pro-democracy web pages. They told me they didn't want political stuff, so I told them I was sorry their evil government made them say that, and sent them some more. I tried again a few days later, and found that their e-mail account was closed.

Meanwhile, as we know that hyenas and jackals are capable of hunting their own prey, so we know for a fact that the rogue companies and factories we are discussing here are capable of producing knives that are either original work, or generic enough that one cannot identify anyone who has been ripped off. Fred Carter is a talented maker who has come in for criticism for working with the enemy, but I wouldn't call a Gigand Spectrum a "knock-off."

Is there any way companies like Spyderco, Benchmade, SOG, Buck, etcetera, etcetera, could conspire with (or at) distributors to make it easier for folks like Double 8 to distribute their legitimate products if they drop the knock-offs, and harder if they do not? (Maybe that should be considered a rhetorical question and not directly answered.)


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001


[This message has been edited by James Mattis (edited 14 November 1999).]
 
In defense of Gigand, I had an opportunity to inspect some of their knives in NY. The models appeared to demonstrate that somebody cares about trying to do a good job. They are also paying Fred Caerter Royalties. I would say theat their bigest crime might be by association. The difference between a collaboration and a "Knock off" is the "caring" and the "royalties".

I also spent some time with Double 8's Sales & Mktg Manager "AJ". He seemed sincere and said that Double 8 was trying to "Change their ways". I gave him some "truth" and some suggestions on how double 8 could do that. I also let him know that unless they did, I would never consider them a competitor, just a ......

sal
 
>> We have to cover design, engineering, tooling and marketing costs, and it would be nice to make a profit before giving up the bulk of the profit to the hyenas & Jackyls.

Which brings us full circle back to the beginning. My wife came from a large family, about 9 people. A lot to feed with one little chicken. When I am done with a bone, she is just getting started working on getting the meat off of it.

Send your new production glamor and glitter to the high price boys. Then when they are done with it, throw the bone our way, and let us pick the rest of the meat off of it at the lower price outlets. Because when you saturated your market of high price buyers, the people with less money to pay, are just beginning to get hungry. You have regained your investment cost and who knows maybe you can start to make some money off of us common foke
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Let the teenagers have the junk, they can not afford a good knife and would hurt themselves anyways. But when they graduate and get a job in the 18 to 28 year old range, give them last years discontinued model. As they start to establish themselves and make more money, then give them the latest and greatest from your high price boys.

I want to get a knife into peoples hands that they can depend upon. I do not want someone from another country to supply that need. They are not dumb, they are not going to give a good knife to someone who could come up against them someday. I want a knife made by American for Americans.

When my son was up in Alaska, he took a Spyderco, and he could not give it a better rating. When you are out in the middle of nowhere, and need to build a fire, and you only have one knife, make it a spyderco. A knife you can trust and depend upon. Thanks, johnR7
 
If I insisted on "buying American," I'd have to disqualify all the Spydercos that are made by first class manufacturers and workshops in Japan. And I wouldn't want that guy in Finland who wants a Sebenza, or that other guy in Finland who wants a Microtech to decide they only wanted to buy Finnish. American knives, and knives made to American specifications in Japan are good export merchandise.

I do want to buy well-made goods from honest manufacturers in places that can at least sneak into a discussion of free countries in a good week.

Perhaps Spyderco could go the route that Columbia River and Outdoor Edge have gone, who have found factories in Taiwan who do very good work for a very good price. That would not, however, bring the price of a Delica down to $5, and it might make it difficult to properly use some of the new steels they're using in Seki City - ATS55, VG10 for example.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
>> "Do you have a printer cable that doesn't come from a communist country?"), they act like I'm some sort of freak because I don't like buying slave labor.

Do you know for sure, that "printer cables" are made by political prisoners in China? Just wondering
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>> They told me they didn't want political stuff, so I told them I was sorry their evil government made them say that, and sent them some more.

Well, I may be an idealist, but I was always under the impression, that everyone who ever died for freedom, died so that no one had the right to force what they believe on others.
 
As long as China is a totalitarian dictatorship, all Chinese who are not part of the inner circle of the Communist Party are political prisoners. Some prisoners have better accomodations than others. If I believed that the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were for me and people like me, but not for people in other places, wouldn't that make me some sort of racist?

I will admit to combining at least issues here. But it seems peculiar to me to say, on dealing with the world's largest political prison, that I can tolerate bloody tyranny in my trading partners, but I draw the line at plagiarism!

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001


[This message has been edited by James Mattis (edited 16 November 1999).]
 
>> I will admit to combining two issues here, on dealing with the world's largest political prison - a specific issue of respect for other people's intellectual property, and general issues of tyranny, slavery, and murder.

That does tend to be an issue, sense we risk getting into a thread drift from the purpose and intention of the forum to deal more with knife related issues.

I do have trouble grasping the concept that China has no regard for "intellectual property" From the Business men I have talked to in China, they understand very well just what the laws are. Its just that their government does not enforce the international copy protection laws.

Its seems to be clear, that the purpose and intent of the law is to encourage research, development and creativity in general. Yet there have always been people who produce and those who plunder. If you have more producers, than you do those who plunder, you have a rich nation. If you have more who plunder, the nation will be poor.

Is that not the basic platform of a communist government to take from the rich, to give to the poor, so that really, no one ends up with anything, because there is no longer an incentive to produce?

I guess you would say, when a government robs people of their initiate and incentive, that holds them in poverty, perhaps the worst prison of all.

For me, we only need one law, and that is, thou shall not hurt thy neighbor. To plunder what he has produced, does indeed do him harm, and breaks that law.

You still have the issue of those who buy the plundered good, here in this country. What about that? I am starting to get away from any product made in China myself, because they are flooding our market, and driving the price to the point where things have become so common, people are no longer willing to pay anything.

They keep saying Hong Kong is going to recover, but it will never well. It will continue to make a slow gradual decline, until they finally destroy it. Very slowly over a period of time, it will happen.

There is always hope for the individual, but when a person changes their email address, I would think you failed to reach that individual. You method did not work, and I would think you need to try another method.

Thanks so very much, JohnR7
 
Certainly a varied thread (myself guilty included). But interesting points of view. May I warp the view, just to broaden the mind?

John & James are neighbors in a small town in China. They have families. Being responsible adults, abeit poor, they WILL take care of their families.

Not all humans on this earth are fortunate enough to be able to AFFORD the luxury of honor and loyalty to Mars or Venus. (and Golden, Colorado might as well be Mars or Venus). Only to their families and their own country.

Their Government has a very large responsibility to feed a very large number of people. The "Best" way to do this is to encourage production, and we all know that it doesn't pay to produce something you cannot sell. Sometimes choices are not as simple as "making a decision". Maybe, in our "educated armchair observations", we can figure out a better solution? Maybe?

I cannot imagine the logistics of trying to run a country with 2 billion humans. Heck, I have a hard time running a company with 60 crew. Can you?

Though we really don't like or appreciate the "What is happening", We must accept and understand the "Why" and recognize that "reality is a firm, but honest teacher"...even if we don't like the lessons.

We must continue to protect and defend our "tiny company", but it is more like putting up an umbrella...we cannot stop the rain.

Just some thoughts to share.

sal

[This message has been edited by Sal Glesser (edited 16 November 1999).]
 
Sorry about the length of the post, but I'm a giddy puppy this date!

It seems obvious from the thread that the POS knife will not generally get someone interested in the "real thing". Thought you could stand hearing about an exception:

Spyderco has an army of loyal customers. Like a lot of knife knuts, they won't start talking cutlery with an "outsider".

Let somebody (me) show up at the workplace with something less than a Spyderco and suddenly they come out of the woodwork to edgeucate my mislead self. I listen, I check the internet.

Less than a year later, I'm carrying an Endura, have two BF Natives (one of each edge), a G10 harpy, a grey-handled matriarch, a (real) cricket and best of all, today...

I get my number in the collector's club.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!

Thank you Sal, Thank you Jill, Thank you Fred, Thank you Sue, And thank you Vicki (my wife who understands the dent in the checkbook).

So maybe not everybody who shows up at work with a POS winds up like this, but Sal, that army of yours is awesome.

Thanks
Jim
 
>> Their Government has a very large responsibility to feed a very large number of people.

Well, my knowledge of ancient china comes more out of a Pearl Buck novel than anything else. But I though the farmers paid taxes to the emperior to hire an army to protect them from having their crops plundered.

>> Not all humans on this earth are fortunate enough to be able to AFFORD the luxury of honor and loyalty to Mars or Venus.

I thought honor and loyalty was due to the Creator of Mars & Venus.

>> it is more like putting up an umbrella...we cannot stop the rain.

Oh yeah, storms come and storms go, but when you build upon a proper foundation, you have nothing to worry about.

You know, more and more knives are being bought and sold on the internet than ever before. I have been working for almost a year now, to try and get better at getting a image on the web. I have seen really good knives that did not sell, because they do not photograph well, and other knives that are junk, sell because they photograph so well. People are funny sometimes.
take care, thanks, john
 
Hm, this forum's getting pretty interesting.
(And not only because my Cricket is my absolute favorite knife that I carry every day and play with when I'm waiting for a program to compile/run/whatever.)

JohnR7, I don't think China (or any other country) is too worried about Americans coming at them with knives. They're not the deciding factor in a modern war.

Sal, I like your point to put oneself in the position of a couple of Chinese peasants. If more people took the time to think that way -- just a few minutes every once in a while -- I think a lot of our misunderstandings and general trouble would be avoided.

But not all, because sometimes governments deliberately try to confuse the issue, as Russia is doing now regarding its invasion of Chechnya.

Anyway, back to China: the worst famine in this century--actually, I think, in all of history--was in China, from about '57-'60. And it wasn't because of inaction by the government, it was because of the government's own mistakes. In this case, they had effectively reduced overall output by collectivizing agriculture (i.e. that isn't your cow, it belongs to the village). Then they insisted on having set food quotas met for the cities, or the regional committee chair is shot. Once these quotas were met (or as close as possible), there wasn't nearly enough food left in the countryside, and people starved.

As Sal said, it's an incredibly complex problem trying to manage such a big country -- sometimes the best thing is not to try to control things too completely. (Other famines took place in the early USSR, in Ethiopia under Mengistu, and recently in North Korea, for related reasons.)

On a cheerier note, seriously, have you considered putting out a whole line of Cricket versions? (Maybe a locust? Grasshopper? :^) ) I remember talk about a slightly bigger version, that would be a start. A version in carbon steel would be pretty neat. How about bringing back the aluminum handle, or trying a micarta? Cricket Dyad?

It might sound like I'm going overboard here, but it's such a nifty design, and so alone.

Are there any special instructions for sharpening a Cricket? (e.g. with a Sharpmaker? Other tools?)

Regards,
John
 
John & John - Good points, and thanx for the kind words.

This forum does get interesting, because of the visitors; their interests & abilities. I feel fortunate to have the ooportunity to tax my little brain to peak efficiency as a result.

sal
 
I was wondering about the Cricket though. I went to order some from my distributer, and they said they were out of them, and did not expect to be getting any for about 2 months. Is that because of when their next order comes up, or is it because Spyderco is low on their supply right now. I did notice that they had a bunch of the old rescue blade knives. We always seem to have to much of what we can not sell, and never enough of what is selling
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I have spent my fair share of time, trying to get my money back out of slow moving inventory, so I can reinvest it in faster moving stuff. Thanks, John
 
We shouldn't be 2 mos out on Crickets. You might check around. I'll check inventory, if I'm not correct and we are that far back-ordered, I'll let you know.

sal
 
Ok, for now I am going to work on moving out the pink cricket and the discontinued rescue. My son was camping out up in alaska and it gets cold at night even in the summer. He needed to build a fire and all he had was a spyderco rescue knife. He used it to split the wood, hitting it with a big rock. He said it did not hurt the knife one bit. It must have been cold, because he usually does not even wear a jacket in the winter here in Ohio. Thanks, John
 
Is the Cricket (Zytel handled version) a fairly solid knife for its size? I haven't really handled one yet, and knowing Spyderco, I'm sure it MUST be a great quality knife. But the design just looks a bit weird to me. But I'm thinking of a plainedge one for travel.
Jim
 
One of the most frequent uses of the "urban survival knife" is opening letters and packages, and the Cricket does that very very well. Also, that little hook is just the thing for neatly cutting out a section of a printed page.

And grabbing somebody who carries a Cricket might be a bit like grabbing a bobcat.
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------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
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