Stabilizing Wood: Physics, Chemistry, Materials, Techniques, and Performance: "Just the facts Man"

[TLR]

Last week I was shown a knife I made a few years ago with some wood I bought from a popular maker who stabilizes a lot of wood with their own process.
Those scales have curled by the ricasso and will need to be replaced. These are not the only pieces I have had this occur to from several different vendors.
There is a very large vendor that sets up at Blade every year that I will no longer use because every piece I have cut into from them shows less penetration and after cutting scales I have had to seal the scales to get a consistent look.

I have never had this happen from the pieces
I have either personally had stabilized by K&G or bought from vendors who use K&G.

Not only do I find more complete penetration, the density and stability of the final product is different.

I have several hundred dollars of wood that is in my collection that I will not use because of my personal experiences with wood treated by vendors other than K&G.

 

[TLR]

Just realized how old this thread is. Disregard this post.

 

[K.B. Knifeworks]

Ok forgive the stupid questions. I have recently started to experiment a bit with cactus juice and dyes and have found myself with lots of dyed cactus juice. For various woods like walnut, Osage, purple heart, and bubinga that are already dark or have lots of color on their own even - if you placed these woods in dyed cactus juice would you see any effect? I’m not necessarily trying to dye these woods but more confirming they would likely not absorb the die and thus enable me to use dyed cactus juice for other things and avoid any waist.

 

[FloWolF]

I know this is a recently resurrected thread, but a good read through and I didn't notice anyone mention the kind of pressure the pro's use in their processes - I personally use 200 psi and hold it there for a day or so, but the pros appear to be using pressures in the *thousands* of PSI ranges, have choices of different thicknesses and properties of resins to use depending on the wood type, and I am sure that at least sometimes they actually cure the stabiliser whilst still under massive pressures autoclave style which greatly reduces swelling and/or out-seepage as the heat goes up and the reaction gets underway.
These treatments seem to make the notable difference in finished material compared to the best home done stuff.

 

[koduu]

I know this is a recently resurrected thread, but a good read through and I didn't notice anyone mention the kind of pressure the pro's use in their processes - I personally use 200 psi and hold it there for a day or so, but the pros appear to be using pressures in the *thousands* of PSI ranges, have choices of different thicknesses and properties of resins to use depending on the wood type, and I am sure that at least sometimes they actually cure the stabiliser whilst still under massive pressures autoclave style which greatly reduces swelling and/or out-seepage as the heat goes up and the reaction gets underway.
These treatments seem to make the notable difference in finished material compared to the best home done stuff.

I think someone said the pros tend to go all the way to 4000 PSI (275 bar). IMO the regular hydraulic pressure cylinders are built to operate at 200+bar so assuming you can find on the cheap a 200 bar compressor, actually upgrading your setup to almost the same level as the pros might be possible.

I have been thinking about upgrading my own setup of just regular vacuum + atmospheric pressure soak to the same setup you have (vacuum + 13 bar pressure), did you see any significant improvement in the penetration/mass gain?

 

[koduu]

I have one additional question to people who have been stabilizing for a longer time. Would it be more reasonable to make the vacuum chamber with 2 valves, so that the vacuum stage would be dry and the second valve would allow the stabilization resign into the chamber only at the end of the vacuum stage, right before the pressure stage.

The reason I ask this is because of the pressure that the stabilization resign will put on the pieces themselves. in a hypothetical hydraulic cylinder vacuum chamber the stack of wood and liquid would probably be a feet or 2 high. 1 feet of water should have a pressure of ca 3% of the atmospheric pressure. wouldn't that already significantly impair the air exiting the lower layers of the wood?

Added a sketch of said hypothetical vacuum/pressure chamber

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I doubt just vacuuming the wood would do anything to help with stabilization. I think part of the vacuum process is soaking the resin into the wood.
Also, the valve would have to be rated at the pressure of the cylinder. I don't know if it is easy to find a 4000PSI rated valve.

 

[koduu]

I doubt just vacuuming the wood would do anything to help with stabilization. I think part of the vacuum process is soaking the resin into the wood.
Also, the valve would have to be rated at the pressure of the cylinder. I don't know if it is easy to find a 4000PSI rated valve.

Thanks for noticing this stuff, not really my area of expertise. That being said, aren't welding CO2 regulators for example rated for 300 BAR? I get that it's meant for CO2 gas not some random liquid and its a regulator not a valve, but that regulator is just ca 35$ so I would guess that a simpler valve should have way smaller cost?

Edit: did a quick google on high pressure valves, at least some French site that sells diving gear seems to sell 500 bar valves for ca 40€ inc tax

 

[Natlek]

Thanks for noticing this stuff, not really my area of expertise. That being said, aren't welding CO2 regulators for example rated for 300 BAR? I get that it's meant for CO2 gas not some random liquid and its a regulator not a valve, but that regulator is just ca 35$ so I would guess that a simpler valve should have way smaller cost?

Edit: did a quick google on high pressure valves, at least some French site that sells diving gear seems to sell 500 bar valves for ca 40€ inc tax

Making something yourself can mean savings. Making something yourself can mean better than what the industry offers. It depends on what you want and whether it's worth it. You can DIY heat treat oven quite cheaper than Evenheat and same quality .BUT you can DIY HT oven much better then Evenheat if you spend as much money as Evenheat costs new......................or if you spend more money