Starting a whetstone collection

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Aerose91, Sep 3, 2020.

  1. kreisler

    kreisler

    594
    May 11, 2012
    how experienced and good r u @ sharpening?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  2. Aerose91

    Aerose91

    65
    Feb 11, 2014
    I'm not a beginner but nor a pro. I just want to learn the art better so I can sharpen my own knives for the rest of my life. Mostly kitchen knives but I do use my hunting knife, tomahawk and machete. I don't know if im prepared to spend $300 on a kit but would like to have something decent that will last as i improve
     
    kreisler likes this.
  3. Ourorboros

    Ourorboros

    564
    Jan 23, 2017
    Okay, the Miyabi is where you may need to get picky about the stones you use. They have different lines with VG-10, SG2 (Artisan and Birchwood), and ZDP-189 (Black).
    With VG-10, Shapton and any reputable water stone will work.
    SG2 is more or less S30V with half the vanadium. Water stones will work, but slower than the VG-10. Some loaded strops for polishing may do you better. YMMV, some go water stones all the way. I wouldn't blame somebody for using diamonds.
    Some say you can use water stones on ZDP-189, but I don't have that kind of patience and I'm not guaranteeing I can hold my angle that well for that long. I'd recommend you touch it up regularly on your strops at the very least and for me, diamonds.

    I also make these recommendations as somebody who doesn't love diamond stones and find the results toothier than I want.
     
  4. MtnHawk1

    MtnHawk1 Basic Member Basic Member

    272
    May 22, 2019
    I agree that the Manticore is excellent for repair and re-profiling, but don't like to spend anymore time sharpening than I have to, so usually start with the Manticore if my edges need more than just a touch-up. Neither diamonds or SiC at higher grits hogged off metal as fast as I wanted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
    Tjstampa and Eli Chaps like this.
  5. Aerose91

    Aerose91

    65
    Feb 11, 2014
    The Miyabi im going to get is the prep knife with MC63 stainless steel.
     
  6. tommytman

    tommytman

    171
    Aug 12, 2019
    I started today with the Norton SiC 8 inch stones in all three grits. They are relatively inexpensive and I’ll use them on my non super steels. I wanted to try 8 inch stones free hand before I invest in 8 inch diamond and this seems like a good idea.
     
    Eli Chaps likes this.
  7. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    You can of course use their box as a holder and it works so-so but a universal stone holder really makes life nice.
     
  8. tommytman

    tommytman

    171
    Aug 12, 2019
    I need a holder but will use the box for now. :) good point thought
     
  9. tommytman

    tommytman

    171
    Aug 12, 2019
    There has got to be a way to make a stone holder for cheap, out of household left over stuff, like a 2x4
     
  10. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    Just buy one. ~$20 for years, if not a lifetime (not using water) of use.
     
  11. sceva

    sceva Gold Member Gold Member

    605
    Sep 18, 2002
    I use a Lansky to create and set bevels and an AG Russel crock stick for touch ups. What I do go to the stone I have a 8 x 3 x 1 Washita Stone (Smith's I believe) in the cedar box that I got just about the time the Washita vein ran out.
     
  12. Ourorboros

    Ourorboros

    564
    Jan 23, 2017
    That's SG2 right now.
    Their FC61 is AEB-L.

    It's a silly thing knife companies do.

    If you are thinking of Shaptons, MTC Kitchen has a 20% off sale right now. The only stones they don't include are the Suehiro Gokumyo. A shame, because I do like the Gokumyo 6000. But it's the best price you'll find until their next sale.
    And if you do go with Shaptons, do keep them flat. They are hard stones (the abrasive itself is aluminum oxide). They take longer on the lapping plate. The Shapton Glass - and really all the fine Shaptons - have a tendency to glaze over too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  13. Aerose91

    Aerose91

    65
    Feb 11, 2014
    Yah i think im leaning toward Shaptons atm but likely skipping the super high grit for now, especially since I have a nice strop.

    What do you guys think about the 1000/4000 combo vs a 800/2000 or 500/2000 combo? I dont have any super dull knives and don't think I need the 500, especially if I pick up the Ultra Sharp diamond 300. I was pretty set on the 1000/4000 but I see a LOT of ppl rave about 500 or 800 to 2k and then even 5k. God, there are so many options
     
  14. Ourorboros

    Ourorboros

    564
    Jan 23, 2017
    You don't mention brands, which will affect things. If you are choosing water stones from quality brands, it's going to work out. They aren't exactly the same, but by the time you polish it's going to be reasonably close. Just remember everybody has different knife mechanics and tastes in end result. If you pick from a good brand (Shapton, Chosera/Naniwa Pro, Suehiro/Kohetsu, some others) you can safely pick a coarse - medium - various fine stones and have great results. Your flattening stone can serve as an extra coarse stone.
    How far you want to polish will depend on your diet and tastes. Some people say that if you cut meat, you should stop at 2-4K. Others like fine edges. I just sharpened a knife to 16K (1 micron) to break down a pork shoulder.
    Oh, and diamond stones are measured on a different scale than water stones.

    So my impressions:
    The Shapton Glass 500 and 2000 are two of their best stones.
    However, the 500 really isn't that coarse though it does quickly remove material. I prefer it in my sharpening sequence because 320 is coarser than I need but the 500 quickly apexes an existing bevel. Really for setting a new bevel or chip repair I prefer something coarser than a 320.
    Because I often start with the SG500, the 2K (not always Shapton) is my next stone. A 1K stone is too close a jump. A 2K stone is good to have, because that's about how fine a Western knife will go.
    With a Japanese knife, I do polish after a 2K stone.
    Some people like 800 to 2K - I see that a lot with Kohetsu stones. I personally find the jump too small for my taste - they are both mid-grit stones. I could have apexed faster with a 500 or 320.
    Now as far as Shapton stones go, I consider the Shapton Pro 5000 the dog of the bunch. That isn't to say it doesn't work. But it lacks good feedback and glazes fast. But the Shapton Pro 320-1K-5K is fairly common and gets results. Just not my favorite sequence or polishing stone.
    1K-4K works just fine. So does a bigger jump, like to 6K.

    It takes some experimentation to find out how fine you like your edges.
     
    dantzk8 likes this.
  15. Ourorboros

    Ourorboros

    564
    Jan 23, 2017
    TL;DR
    Don't let the choices overwhelm you - if you pick a good brand you will get a good result. Just have something in the coarse-medium-fine (extra-fine) range.
    With experience you will find out which stones and edges you prefer. Remember it's people who are deep into a hobby that get deep into these set-ups. A functional set of quality stones will allow you to achieve a very good edge.
    Just don't get that cheap stuff from Amazon.
     
  16. Aerose91

    Aerose91

    65
    Feb 11, 2014
    I feel like I'm pretty set on a 300 grit Ultra Sharp diamond stone and my principal stones being Shapton Glass. I like the fact that they cut quickly.
    I was originally thinking 1k/4k but I keep hearing great things about the 2k. It seems like 1k & 2k is overkill. I obviously need a sharpening stone and then a finishing stone but I dont want a finishing stone that is too fine. I may in the future get an 8k or something similar for my Enso and Miyabi but probably not to start. Fwiw I also have a strop.

    So, I need 2 primary stones. 90% of the sharpening ill be doing is refining or sharpening dulled kitchen knives and a folder or two. I have only once ever needed to reprofile a blade so I question if I need a 500k stone if ill have the 300.
     
  17. Bigfattyt

    Bigfattyt Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 23, 2007
    You don't need high grit to get shaving sharp.

    You shoule be able to shave arm hair effortlessly with 400 grit.

    I go from a DMT course (325 grit) if it needs more work,

    To a fine DMT (600 grit).

    Then a brown ceramic spyderco rod, to a white spyderco rod.

    On some knives I prefer the edge right off the 600 grit diamond.

    I have used a loaded strop with aluminum oxide compound extensively. I use it selectively now.

    I like more bite/tooth to an edge unless I have a purpose like wood working.


    I used a Lansky sharpening kit for years, but started doing hand sharpening about 17 years ago. Mostly because of convex edges.

    I now maintain my convex edges on stones/rods as well with no issues.

    I've done sandpaper on glass and rubber backings too, and I feel that really upped my hand sharpening skills.

    I have a more course double sided wet stone, but I hardly ever use it.


    I also have a 2x72 bench sander, so if an edge needs real work, I go that route.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  18. Aerose91

    Aerose91

    65
    Feb 11, 2014
    What grit would be preferable for sharpening your average kitchen knife? Something that doesn't need reprofiling but just has gotten dull
     
  19. MtnHawk1

    MtnHawk1 Basic Member Basic Member

    272
    May 22, 2019
    It depends on whether you want coarse or smooth edges.
     
  20. Ourorboros

    Ourorboros

    564
    Jan 23, 2017
    Get a medium grit stone from a quality manufacturer and see how you feel about the results.
    People use a progression - several stones - because it gets them to the result they want faster.
    But you will tend to use a medium grit stone the most - especially with Western knives not being able to go finer.
    Once you find a medium grit stone you like, the logic of your progression tends to work itself out from there. That's part of why I had a long post on why I chose the stones I use, so you can see the thinking behind it.
    The disadvantage of having so many choices is brain lock. The good part is that you can choose from more than half a dozen different lines and not be wrong.
     
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