Supersteels. Do we really need 'em?

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DukeNukem1977

Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
18
Hello everyone!
I'm new here and as green as possible! :p Just saying this in case I did something wrong and out of place.
I'd like to share my general reflection which revolves around blade steels.
I'm from Poland, Cracow, I've been collecting knives since 8 years. Most of the time I was a typical steel snob. M4, Zdp189, XHP, S90V, S35vn, Vanax75, many other cpm steels...yes, my knife had to be made of something exotic, hard to sharpen, expensive and with great edge retention. I dunno why, but one day I decided to buy something more normal and mediocre and bought cold steel Pendleton Hunter in vg1 steel. And now I feel like I just rediscovered knives once again! I feel like I've already forgotten how pleasure to use and maintain a knife can be. Right now I have one blade in vg1, delica in vg10, benchmade in 154cm and don't want to look at supersteels never again. This medium grade steels require 4-5 times less time to maintain hairpopping sharp, I don't have to worry about microchipping while working with the hard wood, they are helluva less expensive...my question right now is : why everybody, (and I in the past) is so "possessed" with steels which are pain to maintain, with heartattackgivin' msrp, and many of us so called"knife guys" can't even resharpen em properly?
 
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I think "hard to maintain" really depends on what sorts of sharpening tools you're working with. On the Wicked Edge, M390 is easily one of my favorite steels to sharpen and it is extremely easy to maintain simply by stropping. So I feel like I'm getting all the benefits of higher grade steels without really any "but it's hard to sharpen" drawbacks.

If I only had some benchstones or a sharpmaker, I imagine I might feel differently.
 
halden.doerge said:
I think "hard to maintain" really depends on what sorts of sharpening tools you're working with. On the Wicked Edge, M390 is easily one of my favorite steels to sharpen and it is extremely easy to maintain simply by stropping. So I feel like I'm getting all the benefits of higher grade steels without really any "but it's hard to sharpen" drawbacks.

If I only had some benchstones or a sharpmaker, I imagine I might feel differently.
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I just sharpen all my blades freehand using Eze-Lap diamond stones, and some ceramic rods in many different shapes and sizes. For finishing cutting edge i like triangle ceramic rod the most. Usually I don't go above 1000 grit, cutting agression and edge holding compromise is just between 600-1000 based on my experience and skills in sharpening. I don't like and use systems, cause sharpening freehand is some kind of ritual for me and I'm just proud that my cutting edges are symetrical and steady (reasonably well) without using em.
 
DukeNukem1977 said:
I just sharpen all my blades freehand using Eze-Lap diamond stones, and some ceramic rods in many different shapes and sizes. For finishing cutting edge i like triangle ceramic rod the most. Usually I don't go above 1000 grit, cutting agression and edge holding compromise is just between 600-1000 based on my experience and skills in sharpening. I don't like and use systems, cause sharpening freehand is some kind of ritual for me and I'm just proud that my cutting edges are symetrical and steady (reasonably well) without using em.
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I enjoyed freehanding on diamond stones as well for a few years, for the same reasons. Once I tried the WE I was hooked though. Just love the precision and repeatability too much.
 
BilboBaggins said:
I love the super steels. My KME can handle them and it gives me sharpening to enjoy!
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Don't you feel like medium grade steels like 154cm/vg10/440C could be just as good, at least for edc use? Of course they need several touch-up's more to keep em sharp. But aren't they better balanced in terms of sharpening time required to make em hairpopping/edge holding ability?
 
DukeNukem1977 said:
Don't you feel like medium grade steels like 154cm/vg10/440C could be just as good, at least for edc use? Of course they need several touch-up's more to keep em sharp. But aren't they better balanced in terms of sharpening time required to make em hairpopping/edge holding ability?
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Again, it just depends on the sharpening system you have. In a KME or WE, I really don't think there's a huge difference in sharpening time.
 
Cracow, summer 2015, those were the good days.
Good memories with that city.

Ever heard of the Pink Panter hostel?

Probably a long shot but just wondering.
 
DukeNukem1977 said:
Don't you feel like medium grade steels like 154cm/vg10/440C could be just as good, at least for edc use? Of course they need several touch-up's more to keep em sharp. But aren't they better balanced in terms of sharpening time required to make em hairpopping/edge holding ability?
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I have no issue with the lower end steels. They're great for my uses and I own a number of knives in that range. I do like sharpening and if I have to spend extra time on the supers, then so much the better. Sharpening is meditative.
 
I am grateful the "super steels" are widely available in production blades. They earn their keep in situations re-sharpening just can't be done easily or properly. I really do enjoy the fine grained easy to restore edge I get from AUS8 and 52100 AKA SR101. Case and Mora carbon steel get those really crisp edges too. (With ease to boot.) There are plenty others in this class but these are well represented in my collection.
 
DukeNukem1977 said:
Hello everyone!
I'm new here and as green as possible! :p Just saying this in case I did something wrong and out of place.
I'd like to share my general reflection which revolves around blade steels.
I'm from Poland, Cracow, I've been collecting knives since 8 years. Most of the time I was a typical steel snob. M4, Zdp189, Elmax, S90V, S35vn, Vanax75, many cpm steels...yes, my knife had to be made of something exotic, hard to sharpen, expensive and with great edge retention. I dunno why, but one day I decided to buy something more normal and mediocre and bought cold steel Pendleton Hunter in vg1 steel. And now I feel like I just rediscovered knives once again! I feel like I've already forgotten how pleasure to use and maintain a knife can be. Right now I have one blade in vg1, delica in vg10, benchmade in 154cm and don't want to look at supersteels never again. This medium grade steels require 4-5 times less time to maintain hairpopping sharp, I don't have to worry about microchipping while working with the hard wood, they are helluva less expensive...my question right now is : why everybody, (and I in the past) is so "possessed" with steels which are pain to maintain, with heartattackgivin' msrp, and many of us so called"knife guys" can't even resharpen em properly?
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I completely agree. I like easy maintenence, all part of being a traditional knife owner. Setting up a wicked edge diamond sharpening system was a pain and more of a chore and pricey... took away the hands on experience you get with a simple water stone. I avoided using supersteels out of fear of sharpening them down the road. Or having to send them out to get sharpened. This defeats the purpose of a longer lasting edge if you don't want to use it.....It is fun having all these steels available though
 
I love both high carbide steels, and low carbide steels. They both have their merits and they are both wanted in my knife assortment. I guess being a "knife guy", I want a wide range of cutting tools. The style of knives in my assortment of blades is somewhat broad, little bit of everything.
Also, not every modern "super steel" is difficult to sharpen. I would agree that a lot are, and a lot of them are pushed to the height of their edge holding potential. Some of these steels, such as Elmax, if HT'd to a lower hardness, sharpens like a simple carbon steel, gets scary sharp, is surprisingly tough, and still holds a great edge. There are a few of these steels.
Another great thing is you can customize the steels to perform how you want them to. CPM 3V has many HT protocols that you can get it to perform in many different ways. If you want them to act like carbon steel, super tough, ease of sharpening, etc. Or have it act like an extremely tough stainless, with better edge holding, corrosion resistance, edge stability, etc. I guess I am referring to HT tech more than steel itself.

I think we live in the best age for people that like cutting tools!! They have great steel, along with great mechanics and handle materials!! You will not see me throwing out my 20CV or maxamet anytime soon, nor will I throw out my 1095 or AEB L! No way on all four!!
 
Need 'em? Nah, but I like 'em.

My personal experience with most supersteels is that if you really want to maintain a hair-popping, screaming sharp edge they're mostly a waste. For that I like AEB-L, BD-1 and some of the Sandvik steels. They get there easily, hold that screaming sharp edge well, and they don't break the bank.

Where I find supersteels truly shine is in keeping a working edge. My K390 Spyderco Urban will still shave a bit of hair and I literally have not sharpened it since I bought the thing. It won't effortlessly cut S curves in receipt paper at this point, but it still cuts everything I need it to evenly, cleanly and with minimal effort.
 
I've tried many different steels and have only been impressed with a small few: Lionsteel's Sleipner, Spyderco's ZDP-189, and Rockstead's YXR7.

Everything else I've used seems hyped up and dulls the same for me. That's just me though.
 
Also if....when the zombie apocalypse/a nuclear war comes and you bug out with your supersteel blade. You will have to search around for diamond stones or carry your wicked edge while on the run. Also no one will care about how cool your steel is during these situations.....which kinda defeats the purpose.....This is a major problem!
 
Wow, so many interesting responses! I'd like to highlight that I never had problems with longer sharpening time, and of course i know that many supersteels like Elmax or 3V can really be suprisingly easy to maintain while holding a decend edge for a long time. (I never had a knife with Elmax steel, but on my desk lays a new Cold Steel Master Hunter CPM 3V and just waits for the first suitable opportunity to be used) I just wanted to start a discussion nad learn what others think about the topic. I'm so happy right now with medium grade steels because I finally realised that for my everyday tasks they do the job JUST FINE. And for the price of new supersteel knife I could but 3 different US or japanese made folding knives supporting vg10/154cm etc.
basmca said:
Cracow, summer 2015, those were the good days.
Good memories with that city.

Ever heard of the Pink Panter hostel?

Probably a long shot but just wondering.
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Yes, I heard. It's located on st. Thomas street :p
halden.doerge said:
Again, it just depends on the sharpening system you have. In a KME or WE, I really don't think there's a huge difference in sharpening time.
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Geez, I think that right now I'll have to buy one to try on my own if they're really that good! Maybe I could be able to like high carbide steels once again. One knife made of S290 Bohler Microclean 65 hrc just needs reprofiling because the cutting edge my fellow knifemaker left is horrible, and this material is so hard to sharpen I just don't even want to think about doing this...
 
D DukeNukem1977
Get your VG10 delica and cut open bags of sand, concrete, mortar or other Very silicate rich material and see how well the edge holds up.
Now do the same with a Spyderco Maxamet Mule, Manix or Native.

Since the alloy is ran harder than the vast majority of silicate matter contained within those bags, your edge life will be improved by a Very significant amount.
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The tasks planned for the knife is what I buy the majority of my knives alloys' based upon.
Saltwater = LC200N or H1
Toughness = D3V, 1095/1084/1070, SR101
Kitchen = aeb-l, 12c/14c, S35vn
EDC = anything from 440c to CPM 4V to 52100 @ 64hrc...
 
DukeNukem1977 said:
Yes, I heard. It's located on st. Thomas street :p
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Very nice ladies working the front desk there ;)

Is there still a dragon in a park that breathes actual fire?

Cracow, the city where you can get a pint of beer for 1€, go to clubs with the girls working at the hostels, have them show you a fire breathing dragon and later their bedroom. :p
 
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