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Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

Rob_Angerer said:
There is a 5-1/2 minute long Youtube video, "Moving Away From The Delta Heat Treat 6/12/21", where Guy describes why he's choosing to move away from the Delta 3V heat treat protocol.

In my opinion, there are a couple non sequiturs, and several choices that are carefully, and indirectly worded, excuses. And a few passive aggressive digs at other makers, and at CPM 3V. I've watched it 5+ times, digested his message and choices. It's a head-scratcher, at best, for me... decide for yourself.

When you are willing to walk away from an optimized heat treat formula that was derived to optimize edge/impact stability balanced with toughness vs. hardness, and given the pursuit of excellence that Guy touts, then I wonder if there isn't more to the story. Unclear from the video, which is all about heat treating and manufacturing choices, if they will continue to use Peters. Guy could clear that up easily.

Non sequiturs from video:
* premature dulling/blunting on the GSO-12 while cutting a dead tree, while using the Delta 3V protocol (which was designed to optimize edge stability)... then talking about wanting to optimize slicing performance with thinner grinds behind the edge.
* sending nearly finish ground blades ("net" on size) to Peters and having problems with edge alignment from rapid quench, vs. full thickness heat treats on unground blanks that are headed for the Survive! grinding machine.
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Honestly I couldn’t care less about delta 3v. The steel is as good asit needs to be without the fancy, low through-put delta process. If I need delta (which I never will), I can always go to true custom. Don’t care about his reason for going to it, away from it, low batch requirements, or otherwise. I didn’t order to get delta, I don’t need delta, I couldn’t give less of a shit if they shitcan delta. Hell, at this point,
I’m not sure I care if they shitcan 3v (can’t say it really impresses me so far). Build the damn knives you have orders for, and don’t worry about red herrings like 3v delta.
 
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Did you guys watch the video where the handles don’t fit the blades? He appears to blame millit for it. But in the previous video he released a few days ago he says the delays were because they had to scrap all the millet blades and start from scratch and make their own. Now those are out of spec and he has to hand fit each set of handles to the blade by wallowing out the holes…

those high standards only go so far I guess.
 
OathofStone said:
Their shop seems decently set up and they seem to be making progress. It seems like a lot of work to go through to fake updates and fake a sense of improved production. Especially so when people were continuing to pump money their way without seeing updates. I like the care they appear to put into their blades (always on and covered by towels). Of course, that could be video production value.

I noticed the last blade I ordered from them went from a 90 day shipping time warning to 4 months shpping warning before ordering it. Owning a couple of these now I don't mind the 4 months wait. With all the updates, new tech, and equipment, it's going to be very difficult for them to justify delays and make excuses why it's taking over 4 months to ship blades out. If that's the case I'll just cancel my order and if they try to ding me a 10% restocking fee for something that's not made then I'll let Visa deal with it. I've spoken with Guy a couple of times on the phone and I found him likable to talk to and he was happy to answer a few questions I had. By contrast, I accidentally caught Robinson Armaments owner on the phone once when calling into their shop and wanted to strangle him.

I still have a couple of months left to see if I get burned.
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Anyone seen OathofStone lately? I wonder how his In Stock \ 90 day delivery \ 4 month adjustment is going after 6 months or more?

I wonder how Guy puts his pants on with balls that big.
 
Rob_Angerer said:
There is a 5-1/2 minute long Youtube video, "Moving Away From The Delta Heat Treat 6/12/21", where Guy describes why he's choosing to move away from the Delta 3V heat treat protocol.

In my opinion, there are a couple non sequiturs, and several choices that are carefully, and indirectly worded, excuses. And a few passive aggressive digs at other makers, and at CPM 3V. I've watched it 5+ times, digested his message and choices. It's a head-scratcher, at best, for me... decide for yourself.

When you are willing to walk away from an optimized heat treat formula that was derived to optimize edge/impact stability balanced with toughness vs. hardness, and given the pursuit of excellence that Guy touts, then I wonder if there isn't more to the story. Unclear from the video, which is all about heat treating and manufacturing choices, if they will continue to use Peters. Guy could clear that up easily.

Non sequiturs from video:
* premature dulling/blunting on the GSO-12 while cutting a dead tree, while using the Delta 3V protocol (which was designed to optimize edge stability)... then talking about wanting to optimize slicing performance with thinner grinds behind the edge.
* sending nearly finish ground blades ("net" on size) to Peters and having problems with edge alignment from rapid quench, vs. full thickness heat treats on unground blanks that are headed for the Survive! grinding machine.
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Blame others and lie. Typical survive behavior.
 
braillediver said:
Anyone seen OathofStone lately? I wonder how his In Stock \ 90 day delivery \ 4 month adjustment is going after 6 months or more?

I wonder how Guy puts his pants on with balls that big.
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I also did this. Ordered a 3.5 in October with a 60day delivery promise. I’m still waiting…
 
Unfortunately, you make a very good point on specifying which Christmas... 🤣 ======> 😣

But seriously... Guy is making some relatively bold claims on delivering all pre-orders before Christmas (2021), now that Survive finally have all of their manufacturing tasks under one roof, aside from heat treating. If he can actually deliver on that "before Christmas" promise, then we have something notable ... but I am not holding my breath.

I don't consider the move away from Delta 3V protocol a good thing ... it is purely a late-stage manufacturing compromise. It removes one of the knife features that many (not all) people had in mind when they pre-ordered a Survive! design.

There are other things going on here I believe, but for sure, one is that "perfection has become the absolute enemy of good."

Caveat Emptor.
 
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Well another year and another round of lies. I remember everything was going to be done by 2021 and that statement being made after new orders have been open. Now it all under one roof and going to be done by some made up date. Now the gall is we will raise prices if people don't order more blades. All you have to do is put an order in and wait for the best knife to be made in months. Heck send in 10K and you can get a discount but when you are finished waiting 10 years you will lose that discount for restocking fee on a knife that doesn't exist. They have not even completed the GSO 5.1 which is their flagship blade from 2016 and they are taking more orders. Sounds like a ponzi scam to me. I remember how fanboys would tell me that the Delta treatment made the Peters normal 3V crappy. With survives warranty nothing will get done about it because they don't cover anything other that cutting things like fruits and paper and even then that is up for them to decide. Hello newbies you wont get your order in 4 months and you will be really lucky if it is 4 years. The scam on vaporware continues because people are sending in money to keep them afloat. Pretty sure even A2 steel beats Survives junk science and lies. Look at all the new models out there and what they finished in the last 5 years. They are not even doing 25% of what they claim to do. The GSO 6 wait time is 6 years and going. 5 years on the GSO 8, 10, 12, 5.1 and the years keep piling up as they add new models. That show the ordering has not stopped and those few months they took off before they started up was another part of their ruse and meant nothing. The only thing keeping them out of Prison is the refunds they give and they know most people will wait at least 1 1/2 years before it starts. They don't care about their product or you from what has been going on. I wouldn't trust their product with my life. I put more faith in 1095 or A2 over anything these liars say. Break a LT Wright or ESEE and see if they stand behind their product compared to what Survive does. The list of fans has to be going down with each month that passes by. How many times does a model has to be canceled or upgraded or a new steel or new this as long as the money keeps pouring in to fund their crooked path. I wonder if Beagleboy is still sticking up for the gutter snipe company.
 
Brummie said:
They still have the delta logo prominently on their Instagram page!
I haven't seen any announcement, but the GSO-12s don't appear to be stamped with the delta logo. I presume it's a cost-saving measure, as I don't believe the delta regimen lends itself to heat treating large batches. It COULD just be that they're not doing it for the GSO-12s because of the size of the blades, and will keep it for other models, but my assumption is that it's a sneaky way of saving costs across their entire production.
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Blade size has nothing to do with it as Nathan makes several blades this size and larger that stand up to torture tests.
 
Do anyone remember the newsletter that they would have all knives done by Christmas of 2020 and then they would stop making knives because of family time lost? Remember that tey would also be doing small batches on some site that didn't work out for them. I guess people like to think they are getting rare blades to stir up sending in your order now. Just mark these words they will "blame their new help for their short comings and then Guy and Ellie will have to come back to work part time to make the process go faster with their new equipment ....... so send in money now". If people quit funding this PONZI VAPORWARE operation the quicker people would get what they are owed. Recall that for the past 5 years Delta 3V was not the issue on being a roadblock.
 
GAGL said:
i dont see anybody claiming they did not get their knife after build/shipping was completed by SK.

how hard is that to understand.

all you do is point to threads where people complain about long waiting times,lies etc.

but not one person in this thread ever said they did not get their knife after full completion.

do you get it now or do i have to type it in all caps?
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Did anyone get their SK line that was suppose to make production go faster? Did people get their knives on models that were all of a sudden done away with or changed? If you change a design after you sold another design isn't that funky when it adds years to the years people have been waiting? Are people going to get those Delta 3V blades they ordered? Oh that right they can ask for a refund and lose money on a product that isn't made and changes made after the fact.
 
Elgatodeacero said:
Here is current Better Business Bureau alert re: Survive Knives for new people and those too lazy to look it up.


“CURRENT ALERTS FOR THIS BUSINESS
Pattern of Complaint:
On July 18, 2018, BBB recognized a pattern of complaints from consumers regarding delivery schedule. Consumers allege they order and pay for products from Survive! Knives’ online store, and after several years they have not received their products. On July 18, 2018, BBB notified the company of the complaint patter. To date, the company has not responded to BBB's request to address the pattern.”

https://www.bbb.org/us/id/kellogg/profile/custom-knives/survive-knives-1296-1000035317
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Everyone that has issues with them should file a complaint with the BBB, AG of Idaho and their local state, and FTC at the minimum.
 
GAGL said:
i


i get it,their business practice is poor and shady at best.
i never said it was good or they were good people.

all i want to see is if somebody is claiming they never received their knife after full completion/shipping of the model they ordered and paid in advance.

all you did is send me some links of people complaining and whining about long waits and lies etc.

is there anybody out there that never received their knife after full completion?

i asked this question at least 10 times and nobody can answer it for me...

why is that?

maybe because in the end SK actually delivers promised product and your claims of running a ponzi sheme were false?
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What about the statements from Survive that states the blades will be done by a certain date they paid in full for that knife and then that whole less work model in the SK line which at first was going to be outsourced by a trusted business ended up going to be made by them and then never get made. How can you complete something you never intend on completing? How many models were changed in design and then steel isn't that a non completion of a model. What about model that were sold and then canceled only to be upgraded to something else that has not even begun. Hard to say oh you will get your completion blade when they don't ever complete 25% of what they are suppose to make. If you cancel the Delta 3V steel and replace it isn't that a lack of making the knife you ordered? Now I guess it is the peoples fault for not seeing that in the future and lose out on restocking fee on a vaporware. Text book definition of Ponzi according to the Federal and State Govt. We can show you many examples of will be done by such date, production hiccups are fixed, new machines and people are going to make things better and they don't . Why don't you order 20K in their knives because you trust they will show up and not get angry about the other issues. No most fanbags get their free knife for writing defense stories and never actually order a thing.
 
Quiet said:
Seriously guys, nobody is going to just slide a nice juicy bacon cheeseburger in front of me?
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I ordered a Delta 3V Burger but they changed it to Vegan Burger is that still a completion of a Delta 3V Burger? I am still going to have to charge fees because after all I can't complete the Delta 3V burger and it never existed and I never intended to make it but I can hide behind I always send a burger out. I even had Millet my pals making Burgers but they said they were not making burgers so it is their fault. Here let me send you a XYZ burger made of sawdust and no buns and others call it a wrap but my fanbags will still say you got your burger after 6 years on we will have it done in 4 months but wait the little box you checked to order the knife says they don't have to send you anything. If you were a legal aid person you could see that the contract to do business with them states they don't have to send you anything by any date and they can cancel your order too. This means there is no completion date and as long as they send it some day in your great grand kids children lifetime not theirs it's all gravy burger. Then again you didn't want a gravy burger but that your fault because it fits our new standards of burgers.
 
equivet said:
Did anybody else get the “Comeback Tour” newsletter?! I couldn’t believe it. Here’s the content:


​
Taking the leap to being our own manufacturer is paying off in a big way! Our quality is better than it has ever been, the shop is running smoothly, deliveries are way up, and we're getting on top of our backlog even more quickly than anticipated. Everything is going great now, but as you all know, getting here wasn't without its challenges. We put a lot of time, energy and capital into the company who was originally supposed to take over our production, only to have that investment not pan out. By getting our own new equipment, hiring some amazing people, and developing & optimizing all of our own production processes, we've taken the necessary steps to correct the situation quickly. We're delivering on our word where they couldn't and we're finally primed for growth as a new manufacturing company. For this next step we could really use your help.

​
Our original plan was to raise prices, to offset the phenomenal amount of new overheard we took on with a factory's worth of equipment, hiring all the employees needed to keep things moving, and to buy all the materials needed for a massive ramp up in production. The idea of raising prices just doesn't sit well with us though, so we're going to try something different.

If all the struggles getting to where we are now have taught us anything, it is how to do a lot with very little. As our own manufacturing company, we run a lean, efficient operation and we're prepared to do the work needed to take this to the next level. Rather than burdening you with higher prices, we're simply asking you to get involved by ordering one or maybe a few of the many great knives currently in production. With all of our manufacturing processes now refined, the additional materials and consumables are all we need to meet our growth goals and ensure we don't have to raise prices.

That's all you need to do to help, so now just sit back, relax and wait for your new knives to arrive. With our current manufacturing capacity and optimized processes, we can guarantee that even the latest models on the production schedule will arrive before Christmas, with most models arriving much sooner. I know we've said it before but it really is amazing finally being our own manufacturer.

This being a rapid growth initiative, the more you're willing to spend with us, the more you'll save. All of the discounts listed are for single orders, shipping to a single address. Large orders will ship out each time we have a full shipping box ready to go. Here's what we're offering:
  • Up to $999 = You're getting a great deal on the highest quality knives we've ever produced and ensuring we don't need to raise prices. As an extra thank you we'll include some model specific swag with your order.
  • $1,000 to $2,499 = You're adding a few knives to your carry rotation or collection at once, so we're offering you an additional 5% off
  • $2,500 to $4,999 = You're a super collector or the person tasked with heading up a group purchase, so reward yourself with 10% off your entire purchase.
  • $5,000 to $9,999 = You're a real knife player or you're probably considering reselling some of these on the side, so take15% off your order and think about all the money you're going to make on the secondary market.
  • $10,000 plus = You're most likely a small dealer who knows our quality and you've been waiting for a dealer program announcement, so go ahead and take 20% off your order.
If you're a large dealer wanting to get more involved than the options listed above, give us a call.
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Absolutely mindblowing. Wow.
 
GAGL said:
1.did i ever claim the opposite?

2.did i ever claim tbe opposite?

where did i say i received knives from them?

why can't you answer any of my questions and just change subject?

where is the example of somebody not receiving their built,shipped knife?

you're not gonna answer,aren't you?
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Well I got an email from them saying it was complete and would be sent by Dec 2018 then they went on a multi month selling spree of 2nds after all they didn't have to send me blade by a certain date then the design changed meaning it is a new type of knife not the one I ordered. One of the many reasons they took that facebook page down because you can see the lies in real time. Really hard to complete something you don't complete. SK 12 or SK 5.1 GSO 12 in Delta 3V and the many others so they never completed the Delta 3V Knives for basically all models from the past 6 years.
 
How are all these blades going to be made by Christmas if they are moving to TX? BTW no dealer is going to be calling to send you 10K or more and never have a completion date. Sounds like the Chinese Loan where you decide when to pay back the loan and how much knowing fully well the product is never going to be made as. Hey Guy open a store and have pictures of products with we will send it to you some day when we feel like it. Guys' burger joint we will take money for the burger now and have a manufacture make the best burger and send it to you someday.
 
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