The Chinese Made “D2” Explosion

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OppositeJay

Joined
Dec 18, 2015
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*Please only discuss legitimately-made knives and not clones/fakes in this thread. Thanks*

I have a question for those of you that may have some experience getting knives made in China. We have recently seen an explosion of inexpensive folding knives being sold with “D2” steel and made in China. Depending on the manufacturer, there has been some controversy as to if these knives truly have the steel labeled on them. I am aware that China has a semi-D2 variant, Cr12Mov, and wondered if this is the steel everyone is using in these inexpensive knives. Other than the lack of 1% Vanadium, it is similar enough to D2 to be grouped into that lot on Zknives. Would their be a large delta in performance between, say, K110, and Cr12Mov? With the recent well-known issues with mislabeled steels both here in the USA and abroad, I was wondering if anyone could speak on this so folks would know what they are purchasing. Thanks.
 
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Blues Bender said:
The majority of folks here don't buy fake crap
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Who said fake? Lots of reputable companies are manufacturing D2 knives in China - Steel Will, WE, Boker, Real Steel, etc. Plus some not-so-reputable, but large nonetheless - Bestech, Brous, etc. And yes, they're available from reputable dealers like BladeHQ.

The submitter is asking if these Chinese-sourced D2s are similar in composition and performance to American or European D2. No reason to shit on the thread.
 
tyyreaun said:
Who said fake? Lots of reputable companies are manufacturing D2 knives in China - Steel Will, WE, Boker, Real Steel, etc. Plus some not-so-reputable, but large nonetheless - Bestech, Brous, etc. And yes, they're available from reputable dealers like BladeHQ.

The submitter is asking if these Chinese-sourced D2s are similar in composition and performance to American or European D2. No reason to shit on the thread.
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If the D2 in question is from the makers you mention, I wouldn't worry about it. However, the original question stated that there has been an "explosion" of Chinese D2. The "explosion" I see is with Chinese fakes, not reputable makers...
 
OppositeJay said:
Would their be a large delta in performance between, say, K110, and Cr12Mov?
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I personally like using the Cedric and Ada test results to check on stuff like this. Interestingly, they had the Taiwanese Rat 1 in D2 at 120 cuts, while the Italian Viper Keeper in D2 was at 70 cuts. They don't have any Chinese-manufacturer D2 blades currently.

I don't know where Ontario sources their D2 from, but I'd be surprised if they bothered shipping it in from North America or Europe for manufacturing in Taiwan. Still, though, I do think we can infer from their results that there is a lot of variation in D2 edge holding capability based on both composition differences between suppliers, and heat treat, etc. It'd be good to get the Cedric and Ada channel to test something like a Bestech D2, but until then, I think it's safe to assume that budget manufacturers are probably using budget variants of D2. Still, I'd think budget D2 would be at least as good AUS-8 or 8Cr13MoV, so it's better than nothing.
 
tyyreaun said:
I think it's safe to assume that budget manufacturers are probably using budget variants of D2. Still, I'd think budget D2 would be at least as good AUS-8 or 8Cr13MoV, so it's better than nothing.
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Budget D2?o_O

D2 is D2, buddy. If it was anything different, it wouldn't be called D2. If knife enthusiasts are settling for D2 that performs like AUS8 or 8Cr13MoV then they are just lowering the bar for the rest of us.

That's like selling your gold for silver prices...
 
Blues Bender said:
Budget D2?o_O
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The AISI standard for D2 covers a relatively broad range for allowed amounts of the included elements in the alloy, and I assume that some manufacturers save money with lower quality control, such that different batches might be out of spec altogether. I'd have to assume that something labeled "D2" sold by Crucible or Bohler would be both more expensive, and better quality (read: stricter adherence to standards), than D2 sold by a random Chinese manufacturer. Hence, budget D2.
 
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Blues Bender said:
Budget D2?o_O

D2 is D2, buddy. If it was anything different, it wouldn't be called D2. If knife enthusiasts are settling for D2 that performs like AUS8 or 8Cr13MoV then they are just lowering the bar for the rest of us.

That's like selling your gold for silver prices...
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I am talking about companies like:
Boker
Ontario
Steel Will
Bestech
Kershaw (2018)
We Knives

And just because a steel is labeled as such doesn’t necessarily make it so. D2 is a steel type of which there are wide variances in batch to batch or company to company. Just trying to find out if they use US/European sourced D2 or the Cr12Mov that is locally available in China. Thanks.
 
It's the knife company that labels the knives offered under its brand with the steel selected by the company. Whether the D2 selected by them turns out to be something else, like MOV, is another matter.

China has been capable of producing D2 as a global supplier since, we'll, probably the explosion of D2 cause China.

http://www.otaisteel.com/products/cold-work-tool-steel/d2-tool-steel/

http://m.globalsources.com/si/AS/Da...ould-Steel---Tool-Steel-1.2379/1084636069.htm

The reputation of the company usually precedes itself. The aforementioned companies probably use China sourced D2 cause China .See explanation above.
 
wensynch said:
It's the knife company that labels the knives offered under its brand with the steel selected by the company. Whether the D2 selected by them turns out to be something else, like MOV, is another matter.

China has been capable of producing D2 as a global supplier since, we'll, probably the explosion of D2 cause China.

http://www.otaisteel.com/products/cold-work-tool-steel/d2-tool-steel/

http://m.globalsources.com/si/AS/Da...ould-Steel---Tool-Steel-1.2379/1084636069.htm

The reputation of the company usually precedes itself. The aforementioned companies probably use China sourced D2 cause China .See explanation above.
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Thanks for the reply. I had not seen any AISI Spec D2 from the companies I looked into, only the CR12Mov which is sold as D2 in China as well. I guess I just wish these companies would be a bit more specific about their sourcing so people know what they are getting. I brought this up as it appears the low-end steels are gradually being replaced with D2, and it would be nice to know what to expect as far as performance is concerned. Thanks.

http://www.otaisteel.com/products/d2-tool-steel-1-2379/
http://www.nngsteel.com/Products-show/-Cold-work-tool-steel/GB-Cr12MoV-Tool-Steel,-Economic-Grade-of-D2-and-SKD11.htm

These two above links show that Chinese D2 is often CR12Mov, which is the same as US/EU D2 but with barely any Vanadium. IMHO that will have an effect on edge retention and secondary hardening response. Thoughts?
 
I can only speak to Steel Will's D2, which I suspect is from the same source as most of the others listed above.

It's D2 as far as I can tell. Sharpens like D2, holds an edge like D2, patinas if you abuse it like D2. I like it.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
I can only speak to Steel Will's D2, which I suspect is from the same source as most of the others listed above.

It's D2 as far as I can tell. Sharpens like D2, holds an edge like D2, patinas if you abuse it like D2. I like it.
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Thanks, My main question is would the lack of Vanadium in the Chinese-made D2 have a large effect on edge retention, and if so maybe this explains the variation in cut tests recently. As from batch to batch if one run is done with standard D2 and the next with the CR12Mov. Thanks.
 
OppositeJay said:
Thanks, My main question is would the lack of Vanadium in the Chinese-made D2 have a large effect on edge retention, and if so maybe this explains the variation in cut tests recently. Thanks.
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Again, I've only dealt with Steel Will's Chinese D2, but it performed admirably. I broke down all of the cardboard from the holidays with a Cutjack. Enough to fill a large bin 3 times over; probably 500 or so cuts. It wouldn't shave hair anymore, but would still cleanly slice paper. A little stropping had it back to shaving sharp save for one little tiny chip.
 
So the reason why you see so many Chinese knives in D2 and titanium is because those materials in China are super cheap, and decent quality. Of course there are companies like YStart that calls whatever their garbage steel is D2, but there are multiple legit companies. Some of them list 9Cr and 10Cr as D2 because the steel fits the range (D2 is not a set formula, and it isn't standardized), and D2 is a much better know steel.

I've had one knife in what is claimed to be fake D2, a Komoran flipper, and I've used it at work to cut up a fair bit of extremely dirty cardboard, and it held up perfectly fine. Edge was also surprisingly stubborn to get on, and the reprofile took a bit of time. The knife also has what appears to be ceramic bearings and detent. Whatever steel it is, it has a pretty spot on heat treat.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
Again, I've only dealt with Steel Will's Chinese D2, but it performed admirably. I broke down all of the cardboard from the holidays with a Cutjack. Enough to fill a large bin 3 times over; probably 500 or so cuts. It wouldn't shave hair anymore, but would still cleanly slice paper. A little stropping had it back to shaving sharp save for one little tiny chip.
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Thanks, those Cutjack’s seem to offer an awful lot of performance for the dollar. Nice and thin blade stock and good edge retention. I may have to pick one up.
 
It doesn't really matter if it's real d2 or not. The brand and price usually dictate the quality of the heat treat. In that order. I wouldn't spend more than $30 on anything made in china no matter what's on the label.
 
GalvanizedHero said:
It doesn't really matter if it's real d2 or not. The brand and price usually dictate the quality of the heat treat. In that order. I wouldn't spend more than $30 on anything made in china no matter what's on the label.
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If you won't go over $30 for anything Chinese made then you are exempting an awful lot of the market for no good reason. Some of the best quality Chinese made budget knives, the Kizer Tangram line, run $30 for the absolute cheapest folder. You are also missing out on all Kizer models, all WE knives, all Rike knives. There are some junk Chinese knives, but there are also some junk US knives. Buy from the good company, not focus specifically on the country of origin.

For $30 or less, you can't even get a Chinese Spyderco, can't get many of the Byrd models. Only some of the Chinese Kershaw models are options. It's a very arbitrary restriction that hurts just you.
 
dkb45 said:
If you won't go over $30 for anything Chinese made then you are exempting an awful lot of the market for no good reason. Some of the best quality Chinese made budget knives, the Kizer Tangram line, run $30 for the absolute cheapest folder. You are also missing out on all Kizer models, all WE knives, all Rike knives. There are some junk Chinese knives, but there are also some junk US knives. Buy from the good company, not focus specifically on the country of origin.

For $30 or less, you can't even get a Chinese Spyderco, can't get many of the Byrd models. Only some of the Chinese Kershaw models are options. It's a very arbitrary restriction that hurts just you.
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All the "high end" knives made in china can be had for ~$15 on dhgate, made from the same bargain basement steel, on the same machines and cooked in the same half century old ovens.

kizer, we and rike are blatant rip offs of 25 dollar kershaws only more expensive for a less reputable name brand. Not sure what I'm missing out on there.

The only chinese spyderco I have is the cara 2 -- which I paid $25 for. U.S. made spydercos in premium steel flavors are already extremely affordable.

For junk steel like aus8, 8cr, 440 etc I'll trust a chinese made knife because my only metric for $30 chinese quality is value. Paying the premium steel prices for chinese d2 or elmax or any of the other junk on amazon is begging to be disappointed how the op describes.
 
GalvanizedHero said:
All the "high end" knives made in china can be had for ~$15 on dhgate, made from the same bargain basement steel, on the same machines and cooked in the same half century old ovens.

kizer, we and rike are blatant rip offs of 25 dollar kershaws only more expensive for a less reputable name brand. Not sure what I'm missing out on there.

The only chinese spyderco I have is the cara 2 -- which I paid $25 for. U.S. made spydercos in premium steel flavors are already extremely affordable.

For junk steel like aus8, 8cr, 440 etc I'll trust a chinese made knife because my only metric for $30 chinese quality is value. Paying the premium steel prices for chinese d2 or elmax or any of the other junk on amazon is begging to be disappointed how the op describes.
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Thanks for your opinion, but I don’t see how any of that answers the original question. I simply wanted to have this be a place we can discuss the quality of the D2 knives coming out of China recently and how they perform. I suspect the differences in performance to be caused by different variants of D2 being sourced for different makers, and of course heat treat. This is in regards to knives made by legitimate companies that are not participating in copyright infringement. Please do not discuss DHGate or any of the other sources for fakes/clones my thread. Thanks.
 
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