The H'mong knife - from Vietnam

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Jun 8, 2008
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232
Hi Mates,

I'm writing this thread to share with you some information about H’mong people and their knives. And this is also a gift from me to a new friend in HI forum – MilliePop (Jimmy Yang), a H’mong descent.

H’mong is a group of ethnic people, living in the hilly regions of South China, North Laos and NorthWest Vietnam. They are famous for their craftmanship, especially in bladesmith, gunsmith, cloth weaving and dyeing. Tough as life goes, the knives are with them since the early ages. A man is not complete without his knife. There are “3 most precious thing to a H’mong man: his wife his gun and his knife”.

As the H’mong people scatter in different regions, then there is variation in the knife they make. The H’mong knives are famous for sharpness – “as sharp as water”. The material they forge the blade are from bomb/artillery shell, railway track, tank steel, but the most often used is leafspring. They are hand forged in charcoal oven with very simple tools, quenched in water and sometimes in boiling oil. Some documents also report an interesting way of quenching by using the red hot blade to cut into the trunk of banana tree. This is to me similar to quenching in oil as it reduces hash temperature difference somehow. Quenching is an art that is practiced for hundreds of years. “You have to know the steel grain/texture before quenching. Different steel has different quenching temprature/color. Take the leafspring alone, in a single truck, the steel grain of the longest leafspring is different compared with the shorter and the shortest one”. Handles are often made full tang from buffalo horn and rivets, some are made from wood. Scabbards are made from 02 pieces of pine wood, often attached by rings in various materials like brass, plastic water pipe, rattan, bark of a certain tree… The knives they made are purely functional and they don’t invest on appearance, then, most of them are in villager finish. They are bought from different regions, so you’ll see the variation in shapes, sizes and even functions.

The hilly regions of North Vietnam – home of the H’mong people. Pix taken by me in Nov ‘06
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A peaceful house in the valley. I love the fence with rock and bamboo
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A picture of a black H’mong lady I took in Sapa. She is embroidering her cloth.
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A weekend market selling everything. Here you see black pig. I heard this kind of pig is intelligent, of proper size to be a good pet in the house.
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This is the puppy corner. About $5-$10 per puppy
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And this the men’s corner - the H’mong flute
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The village forge where the knives are born. In the green mat, I saw some blades, some hoes and some bells for hanging on livestock neck.
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And here are the knives. Some are mine, some are my friend’s.

NO. 1 – I like the fish pattern scabbard.

Key specs: Blade length: 9”1/2 (24.5cm), Handle length 4” (10cm), OAL 11” (28cm), Spine thickness: 3.5mm

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NO.2 - A present from my brother. Bought in Sapa – Vietnam. I often got inspired by old blades like this. It must be a good blade that has been keep for use and worn out. I like the string they attach the scabbard. Assumed to be from bark of a tree. Really strong.

Blade length: 9”1/4 (24cm), Handle length 4”1/4 (11cm), OAL 13”1/2 (34cm), Spine thickness: 5mm


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NO.3 - This is another version I bought in Hanoi – very thin, sword like, for clearing springy, I guess.

Blade length: 12”1/2 (32cm), Handle length 6” (15cm), OAL 18”1/2 (47cm), Spine thickness: 3mm

Note the black scabbard. When new, it's wood but it became black when hung over the fire days after days. The smoke create a coat layer and can avoid insects to eat the wood.

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NO.4 - This is the first H’mong knive I have. I bought it in my honey moon trip in Sapa – Vietnam in Nov 2006

Some key specs: Blade length: 7”3/4 (20cm), Handle length 4” (10cm), OAL 11”3/4 (30cm), Spine thickness: 4mm


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NO.5 - Another gift from a friend. The blade is “hollow ground” forged. The hammer marks on the blade helps ventilate and prevent sucking when you cut something soft like fruit or meat.

Some key specs: Blade length: 7”(18cm), Handle length 4” (10cm), OAL 11” (28cm), Spine thickness: 3.5mm

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NO.6 - Some blades of my friend, brought back from his trekking trip in Sapa – Vietnam. We value it for its quench.
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NO.7 - I save the best for last! Say hello to Miss H’mong! My friend bought her from a rich man on his way back home from the forest. This is not just a tool but also a statement of his social status. Horn handle with brass ring and guard. Pine wood scabbard. Contrast to the thick spine, the edge is really sharp with flat V profile. I tried some chop on 2” diameter bamboo tree. It’s easy to cut bamboo in one stroke.

I can help trace outline / sketch and provide more detailed drawings if you guys want to make a HI version out of it. Glad to share!

Some key specs: Blade length: 11”1/2 (30cm), Handle length 4”1/2 (11cm), OAL 16” (41cm), Spine thickness: 11 mm

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Very nice pics and commentary, great vacation destination. I was curious if they use the dogs for domestic/work chores or for food since they are in the market?
The knives have a form-follow-function beauty with no embellishments. Do they smaller versions for food prep etc.?
 
H'mong people love dog and keep them as companion. They are sold by weight. $1 per kg.

I dont know how many version they have but i'm sure knife No.5 is a smaller version for food preparation.

Cheers,

Hung
 
Thank you for the pictures and commentary. Form follows function as the engineers say.
I, for one woild like to see HI make something like this. About how thick are the blades?
 
#2, #3 and #5 are the ones I would be all over though any of them are pretty cool.

Thanks for the post and commentary. I have been near Vietnam but never was in country.
This as a tourist, not in the service. I wasn't in the armed service at all.
I chose the Peace Corps. But even in the PC I wasn't near there, just as a tourist...

I wish I had been more of a knife person back then, I was a gun nut back then and didn't really even look over knives in the markets.
All those places I went and I never thought about checking out the local blades. Excuse me while I kick myself for a while. :)

Again, thanks Hung! You always post up some interesting stuff!
 
Those be some sweet blades, Hung! :thumbup: I especially like those more rustic ones... look like functional, and well-used jungle choppers!

There was a French chap on another forum who posted pics of a Hmong knife that was similar in shape to some of those above, except it had something of a clip point, like a Vietnamese bowie. Oh, and a nice copper bolster if my memory serves.
 
Great post Hung!:thumbup: Wonderful pics and well thought out descriptions!:thumbup: :cool: :D I enjoyed the scenery and pics of the people nearly as much as I enjoyed your pics of the knives.;) Out of all the knives I like the first one you posted the best, I like the fish scale pattern on its scabbard as well but the overall pattern is simply wonderful IMNSHO.;) I also like the sword style knife you said you got in Hanoi, #3 I think it was?
It also has an interesting scabbard in the cordage with its knot work!:thumbup: :cool:

Also of interest to me is the H’mong flute... Can you tell me anything about them? Anything at all? The reason being is that I like to play around with the American NDN Flute a bit. From what I can see it appears that there are three bamboo drones passing through what I assume is the main body of the flute? I don't see any way of being able to play the H’mong flute although I know there has to be.:eek: ;)

`
 
Excellent posts Hung. It is great to see the photo's of the people and environment as well as the blades.

The #3 blade, to me, has more than a passing resemblance to some types of the Dha/Darb of Burma and Thailand which I would suggest is not unreasonable considering historical and other ties between the people of these lands.

Thanks,

bruce
 
Also of interest to me is the H’mong flute... Can you tell me anything about them? Anything at all? The reason being is that I like to play around with the American NDN Flute a bit. From what I can see it appears that there are three bamboo drones passing through what I assume is the main body of the flute? I don't see any way of being able to play the H’mong flute although I know there has to be.:eek: ;)
This has some info on it that might be of interest to you Yvsa. It is also known as the Hmong Qeej Instrument

http://hmongstudies.org/HmongFolkArtsPresentation.pdf

Here is a video on how to make them and has images of it being played. The center where this was filmed is pretty close to me and the Hmong community here is pretty big. If you want I can look around and see if I can buy one for you, but I have no idea how I'd ship it to you. :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2915793097375788270#

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Also of interest to me is the H’mong flute... Can you tell me anything about them? Anything at all? The reason being is that I like to play around with the American NDN Flute a bit. From what I can see it appears that there are three bamboo drones passing through what I assume is the main body of the flute? I don't see any way of being able to play the H’mong flute although I know there has to be.:eek: ;)

`
Hi Yvsa,

The Hmong flute as you refer to it is called a "qeej" or "lusheng" as it is called by the Miao/Hmong people of China. It consists of 6 drones (3 on each side) plus the main body through which the drones pass. The mouth piece is situated at the top of the main body. There is one finger hole on each drone and by blowing into the mouth piece and covering the holes on the drones, you produce music. The sounds produced by covering the finger holes mimics the tones of the Hmong language and in this way a person listening can understand what the qeej player is saying. The qeej varies in design depending on which Miao subgroup makes and uses it.

The qeej is traditionally played during festivals and funerals. In ancient times, the qeej along with the drums were used to rally Miao/Hmong soliders and to drive fear into the hearts of their enemies.

Here are some qeej perfomances by Miao/Hmong people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOzklsmzm6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2pp3Gt0hjo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQpEwqm_I5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyihEeWwUx0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6flFoKTAyA
 
I think of Walt Kowalski when I hear H'mong :p mainly because I didn't know of the H'mong people till I'd seen gran torino. Great looking knives, and a rich culture...I too am interested in exotic instruments, might have to watch some of those youtube videos.
 
Great knives! I bought a ticket to Hanoi for less than $100 a few years ago (I live in Asia), but decided not to go at the last minute. Maybe next year. :)
 
Hi Mates,

I just add in key mesurements of the knives in my previous posts.

Everything is born in its environment. I had to take you a quick tour around to have a better feel of where the knife is used. Natural environment, habit, lifestyle, culture, religion has a lot of effects on those blades.

When comparing the Miss H'mong (No.7) and the Thai Enep and the khukuri, I have a fuzzy feeling that they are relatives, seen in the function of use, the places of use and mostly for their forward balance. I assume that the people in hilly regions of Nepal, North Thailand and North Vietnam often move after few crops, when the soil become less fertilize. As they move, they also exchange their technique, culture,...

The H'mong flute is also used by the guys to declare his love to his lover. He brings the flute with him, choose a place near the girl's house and play the music. If the girl agrees, she will get out of her house as a sign of acceptance. Really nice practice!

I regreted that I could not explore more on these knives when I was in Sapa. It was my honey moon trip and could not leave my wife alone. My interest at that time was in dog. I used to be a moderator for a local dog forum, My interest was to write on the H'mong dog. An amazing "virgin" breed of dog which I will share later when having more freetime.

All the best!

Hung
 
Thanks Ted, et al!:thumbup: :cool: It's too late for me to check out the links tonight but later today I oughta have a bit of free time.;)
 
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