Actually, DDD
there are quite a few "martial arts" or should I say places that propose to be a martial art that are complete bullshit.Period
I've seen quite a few in my lifetime.
That's a topic for another thread though.
The Martial Artist's Katana
- Thread starter Kohai999
- Start date
Actually, DDD
there are quite a few "martial arts" or should I say places that propose to be a martial art that are complete bullshit.Period
I've seen quite a few in my lifetime.
That's a topic for another thread though.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 14,827
Alright folks i am going to try and sum this up
Here are my credentials if that matters in the least I studied Kendo and Iaido under a Japanese highly ranked instructor for many years . I have competed and won but I have also lost. I am certainly not an expert swordsman and as STeven mentioned kendo is a sport not a martial art.
I have many swords from antique nihonto to modern interputations of the Japanese sword.
I have cut alot and when I say alot I mean when I was really into it and before my teacher went back to Japan once a week for over 5 years. Am i an expert cutter far from it but I do know if handed 2 blades which cuts better
STeven who first and foremost is a person who I have great respect for and I do not respect many has had an ongoing round and round conversation with me about merits and differences of different swords. He is a purist and takes this topic very seriously and was urgued to start this thread by me because I was sick of seeing misinformation about a true working sword relateing to the Japanese arts.
Of all the swords I have cut with by far there is one or let me say one maker who makes the finest cutting swords IMHO of all time that is the late great PHill Hartsfield but because this is not a traditional sword I could not compete with it. STeven and I have discussed this and while I don't like it I understand why it can't be used. Maybe I understand this because I was traditionaly trained by a Japanese Master..
If I where to go into battle I would not take this sword whicch was forged from iron ore sand and is a work of art
I would take this sword Hartsfield
so understand when STeven was asked to put time into something he holds near and dear and guys dont take this the wrong way but when guys come on and mention backyard cutting of bottles , beer cans . and fruit he kinda gets worked up. Bladeforums is notorius for having a very poor as in knowledge sword forum so to discourage someone with knowledge even if he comes off a bit rough I believe is a mistake so cut him some slack .
Again i like the Busse sword like objects and have owned them and yes they are fantastic tough blades but to answer your questions they are not a martial artists katana and would not be my first choice to take into a battlefield where the sword was the primary weapon . In modern day warfare one strapped to a pack to use as a close quarters weapon or pry bar would be ideal
Have fun guys but respect people that take there art seriously
Here are my credentials if that matters in the least I studied Kendo and Iaido under a Japanese highly ranked instructor for many years . I have competed and won but I have also lost. I am certainly not an expert swordsman and as STeven mentioned kendo is a sport not a martial art.
I have many swords from antique nihonto to modern interputations of the Japanese sword.
I have cut alot and when I say alot I mean when I was really into it and before my teacher went back to Japan once a week for over 5 years. Am i an expert cutter far from it but I do know if handed 2 blades which cuts better
STeven who first and foremost is a person who I have great respect for and I do not respect many has had an ongoing round and round conversation with me about merits and differences of different swords. He is a purist and takes this topic very seriously and was urgued to start this thread by me because I was sick of seeing misinformation about a true working sword relateing to the Japanese arts.
Of all the swords I have cut with by far there is one or let me say one maker who makes the finest cutting swords IMHO of all time that is the late great PHill Hartsfield but because this is not a traditional sword I could not compete with it. STeven and I have discussed this and while I don't like it I understand why it can't be used. Maybe I understand this because I was traditionaly trained by a Japanese Master..
If I where to go into battle I would not take this sword whicch was forged from iron ore sand and is a work of art
I would take this sword Hartsfield
so understand when STeven was asked to put time into something he holds near and dear and guys dont take this the wrong way but when guys come on and mention backyard cutting of bottles , beer cans . and fruit he kinda gets worked up. Bladeforums is notorius for having a very poor as in knowledge sword forum so to discourage someone with knowledge even if he comes off a bit rough I believe is a mistake so cut him some slack .
Again i like the Busse sword like objects and have owned them and yes they are fantastic tough blades but to answer your questions they are not a martial artists katana and would not be my first choice to take into a battlefield where the sword was the primary weapon . In modern day warfare one strapped to a pack to use as a close quarters weapon or pry bar would be ideal
Have fun guys but respect people that take there art seriously
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Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
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- 12,554
I don't presume to judge your art, as I know nothing of it, but both your statements are indicative of Western thought...which I have no use for....it does not advance the art of Japanese Swordsmanship Arts, it only obfuscates it.
There is a common ideology put forth by "invented" Western adaptations of Japanese Martial Arts...the "we discard what is useless and keep the good stuff".....by what metric? Koryu Bujutsu not only has hundreds of years of lineage, but also of evolution and peer review. It is a grave mistake to think that the art form practiced today is exactly as it was hundreds of years ago...each Ryu master will put his or her own stamp on the artform...but again, there is peer review. The metric that any student considering study should employ is..."is this art recognized in Japan"....and subsequently, what is the Sensei's link to Japan?....do they travel back on a quarterly basis or did they fly through Japan once on an Asian Sex Tour?
This one will do as well as any....I have competed under Toyama Ryu procedures ,and they are clear and no-nonsense:
http://toyamaryu.org/Taikai_Rules_Competition.htm
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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I thought I would put this out there, just as some FYI
Many people who say they do Tameshigiri are really just having fun with swords cutting stuff up or 'Backyard Cutting' - but it's really not the same thing... Not by a long shot.As opposed to casual backyard cutting true Tameshigiri follows set patterns and is highly ritualised, both for safety and to cultivate zanshin (spirit) before, during and after the cut.
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/tameshigiri.html
Many people who say they do Tameshigiri are really just having fun with swords cutting stuff up or 'Backyard Cutting' - but it's really not the same thing... Not by a long shot.As opposed to casual backyard cutting true Tameshigiri follows set patterns and is highly ritualised, both for safety and to cultivate zanshin (spirit) before, during and after the cut.
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/tameshigiri.html
One of the things that the late Nakamura Taizaburo Sensei always like to do was both iai and tameshigiri at demonstrations in order to propagate iai, but sadly the only thing people remembered was the tameshigiri. Having done several festivals in the past, that's the only thing people remember from my demonstrations too.
Here's a little tidbit about tameshigiri from Kenshinkan Dojo's web site:
"One Saturday Nakamura sensei came to the dojo in an agitated state of mind and provided us a strongly worded lecture on tameshigiri, responsibility, and common sense. The catalyst for that evening's eruption was an article in the local newspaper: a doctor who never trained in the sword arts obtained a sword and went into a local bamboo grove where he cut down as many stalks as he could. The first thing sensei emphasized was ANYONE can cut bamboo with a sword; but, simple cutting is not the objective. Tameshigiri must only be done as a means to perfect one's swordsmanship skill. Sensei also stated the doctor did not exhibit proper manners in that he cut the bamboo without permission, exceeding the tenets of budo seishin --the spirit of the martial way. The doctor's actions surpassed common sense because of the possibility of personal injury if the blade ricochets, bends, or breaks. Tameshigiri should never be done by someone lacking experience, or without a qualified instructor at hand."
The last statement definitely rings true because if you've look at other martial art sword forums there are examples of people lacking experience in tameshigiri who have ended up in the hospital with serious injuries.
Here's a little tidbit about tameshigiri from Kenshinkan Dojo's web site:
"One Saturday Nakamura sensei came to the dojo in an agitated state of mind and provided us a strongly worded lecture on tameshigiri, responsibility, and common sense. The catalyst for that evening's eruption was an article in the local newspaper: a doctor who never trained in the sword arts obtained a sword and went into a local bamboo grove where he cut down as many stalks as he could. The first thing sensei emphasized was ANYONE can cut bamboo with a sword; but, simple cutting is not the objective. Tameshigiri must only be done as a means to perfect one's swordsmanship skill. Sensei also stated the doctor did not exhibit proper manners in that he cut the bamboo without permission, exceeding the tenets of budo seishin --the spirit of the martial way. The doctor's actions surpassed common sense because of the possibility of personal injury if the blade ricochets, bends, or breaks. Tameshigiri should never be done by someone lacking experience, or without a qualified instructor at hand."
The last statement definitely rings true because if you've look at other martial art sword forums there are examples of people lacking experience in tameshigiri who have ended up in the hospital with serious injuries.
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I'm not ruffled....I'm annoyed that I have to pull out my calipers.
Scrapizashi:
17 3/8" blade, OAL 27.25", Handle 9" and some change.
.190" thickness at spine
1.50" Blade width
1 lb 13.2 oz
Cord wrapped handle.
Howard Clark Wakizashi(mine, professionally polished by John DeMesa):
21 1/2" Blade, OAL 29 3/4", Handle 7", there is a tsuba and habaki here, so it throws some of the dimensions out of whack, and there is one handling and balance difference right there, by definition.
.199" at the mune machi, .1820 6" up from that, .202 at the yokote...that changes the balance.
1.171" wide...not even 1 1/4"
POB 4" forward of the mune machi.
Weight:1 lb 13 oz....longer blade, less wide, probably faster, zero edge grind, virtually guaranteed sharper, all of which affects handling.
Jerry builds his stuff to be virtually bomb proof, this sword in the hands of a rank beginner would twist like spaghetti.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
So, so true. I am a self-described rank beginner, and despite trying rather hard, I could not mess up Jerry's stuff.
My daughter, Rebecca, a genuine beginner in the sword arts, was very amused. At least she managed not to laugh (out loud).