The Weight Issue- Einsteins Theory Of Khukuri Relativity 8>D

Status
Not open for further replies.

Karda

BANNED
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
20,335
The thing, in regards to khukuri, is that speed thru the air does not always equate to penetration into the target.
The mass behind the edge at impact is what translates to penetration.
If you swing two khukuri of equal length at the same velocity, but one is a lighter khukuri with a thinner spine. The khukuri with the mass and thicker spine will always penetrate the target more deeply.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,158
Yep that's what I wanted to say, just with more words :D
Is there a way to pack this into a formula which shows that effectiveness in a target can only be reached if not too much mass is sacrificed for speed?

I'm sure gun people calculating bullet weights, speed and stopping power can help.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
2,228
Jens, where did you guys get the accelerometer?!?! I want one for my heavy bag in the worst way-seems like a good way to fine tune technique.
The other aspect of weight is that a light weapon movin very fast is easily stopped or deflected. Add mass to that and it becomes trickier-and the likelihood of severely damaging the parrying weapon increases. Managing a heavy blade is more about recovering the strike in a circular fashion than strength (although strength helps).
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
1,122
Not to sound disturbing, but, don't they use khukuri to remove a cows head with one chop? How large and heavy are these?
 

ndoghouse

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,478
Jens: Try blindfolding your friends with that punching bag and when they are blindfolded push the bag a few inches closer to them and compare the force to them being blindfolded and "knowing" where the bag is. You will likely measure more force when they think the bag is farther away than it really is than when they know where it is (unless of course they are trained). In other words: They will apply more force hitting the target earlier than they think they are.
As far as speed and mass calculations. It seems reasonable to me that you would consider acceleration rather than speed. In other words Force =Mass*Acceleration. M and A are directly related and not speed. A=speed squared. Doing the snap chop increases Acceleration because it decreases the travel time to the object over the same distance therefore increasing force.
 

Karda

BANNED
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
20,335
Not to sound disturbing, but, don't they use khukuri to remove a cows head with one chop? How large and heavy are these?

Yes, During the Dashain festival season, many water buffalo heads are removed. The blades size depends on the size of the animal. A large sacrificial khukuri can be nearly 4 ft in length and weigh nearly 20lbs. We don't show pictures of this ritual, as many may find it disturbing.

Day 8: Maha Asthami

An eighth day is called the 'Maha Asthami'. This is the day when the most demonic of Goddess Durga’s manifestations, the blood-thirsty Kali, is appeased through the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of buffaloes, goats, pigeons and ducks in temples throughout the nation. Blood, symbolic for its fertility, is offered to the Goddesses. Appropriately enough, the night of this day is called Kal Ratri (Black Night). It is also the norm for buffaloes to be sacrificed in the courtyards of all the land revenue offices in the country on this day. The old palace in Basantapur Hanuman Dhoka, is active throughout the night with worships and sacrifices in almost every courtyard. On the midnight of the very day the Dasain Ghar, a total of 54 buffaloes and 54 goats are sacrificed in observance of the rites. After the offering of the blood, the meat is taken home and cooked as "prasad", or food blessed by divinity. This food is offered, in tiny leaf plates, to the household Gods, then distributed amongst the family. Eating this food is thought to be auspicious. While the puja is being carried out great feasts are held in the homes of common people.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Messages
19
I believe in using the right tool for the task at hand. I carry a khukri in the "traditional" weight range. It's purely a backup and/or an alternate to the firearms I carry. To be completely honest it's more for intimidation/cool factor than anything. I'll never use my khukri for prying open a door, I have a breaching tool and shotgun that will open a door faster than a key. I'm not going to be cutting up wood with my khukri, hatchet or even an axe, I'll be using my chainsaw.

The argument over bigger being better was probably debated by the cavemen. A larger knife will normally do substantially more damage than a smaller knife if delivered correctly with the same amount of power. That being said, a lighter knife can normally be brought to play and strike faster than a larger knife. This leads to the classic "while you're winding up with your BMF knife my smaller lighter knife will cut you to ribbons before you can deliver a strike". What will ultimately decide the outcome is who's better trained, more mentally prepared and let's face it, the luckier SOB.

I've heard/read the negative comments about HI knives, "anvil's with an edge", etc. To get really technical with the argument, Old School khukri's would cost you ten times more than what's on the market now. I have yet to see an old black and white photo of a Kami pulling a leaf spring off of a 1878 Mercedes Benz and hammering it into the shape of a blade. The fact is HI charges a premium price for knives they back with what appears to be great service and have a loyal following that borders on fanaticism. So who really gives a flying fart about what some jaggov internet ninja with a camera and a YouTube account says???
 

cul4u01

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
4,035
Use the right tool for the job, that is why most of us have more than 1 khukri. I have at least 16, all they way from weapon to chopper, and many sizes and weights in between. Same has having many different screwdrivers in differant sizes...duh! Smart people know what they are doing, others, well, they just need to be educated.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Messages
19
Smart people know what they are doing, others, well, they just need to be educated.

The problem is too many people look to YouTube and the internet for answers. Now we have generations of people who believe Bush planned 9/11, the mob killed JFK and bungholes like the Kardashian's are "stars". Idiots literally educating idiots...
 

cul4u01

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
4,035
The problem is too many people look to YouTube and the internet for answers. Now we have generations of people who believe Bush planned 9/11, the mob killed JFK and bungholes like the Kardashian's are "stars". Idiots literally educating idiots...

lol...ain't that the truth.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,158
Jens, where did you guys get the accelerometer?!?! I want one for my heavy bag in the worst way-seems like a good way to fine tune technique.
The other aspect of weight is that a light weapon movin very fast is easily stopped or deflected. Add mass to that and it becomes trickier-and the likelihood of severely damaging the parrying weapon increases. Managing a heavy blade is more about recovering the strike in a circular fashion than strength (although strength helps).

http://www.prosporttech.com/index.php/buy The wired one (red) is the one I have. I got it 6 years ago. I would be happy to let you borrow it.
Only one problem, the software for it was for Win XP and I cant find the disk. It works without a computer but its nice to see the curves in the software. Why? The device alone only shows you the maximum peak. But how long this peak is or if you get any sub peak afterwards might be important as well. Also if you want to compare and do any number of punches it is good to have them in excel sheets instead of pencilling all the numbers down.
I can contact them to see if I get the software update for free. I hope they don't want to see some original proof of purchase (I dont keep anything for 6 years) In the worst case I will have to pay for it or mail you my old laptop which runs on XP and has the software on it :D
Let me know what you think.
 

Rhinoknives1

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
31,854
There will always be Nay-sayers. For several reasons.

1) They don't have the stones to really do much in life so there must be something wrong with your product that you have the stones to do.
2) Their product is nothing special so they attack someone else's to try to make theirs appear better.
3) Misery Loves company! They are miserable so they want to drag someone down to their level.

Those are the first three that come to mind, I am sure there are many more!;)
 

ndoghouse

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,478
HI products sell themselves. Pretty simple business model. I think now theres enough bees in this hive to protect the queen from outside invaders:thumbup:
 

Howard Wallace

.
Moderator
Joined
Feb 23, 1999
Messages
4,816
Can't resist. :)

The energy of a swing varies directly (one-to-one) with the mass, but varies as the square of the velocity. For example, if you double the mass of a blade, you get twice the energy into a swing. But if you double the velocity, you get four times the energy into the swing.

Implication: A lighter blade, which you can swing faster, packs more energy than a heavier blade.

But that can be misleading, since it takes more energy (from your arm and wrist) to get that lighter blade swinging twice as fast.

Much as we all enjoy applying mathematics and physics to these questions, it really comes down to how does the blade feel in your hand, and that will vary from person to person, and according to what you are doing with the blade.

-- Dave

I was puzzled for many years by a statement of Miyamoto Musashi in the Go Rin No Sho, or Book of 5 Rings. Musashi, the master of the fast-moving katana, advocates striking the opponent with a comparatively slow-moving shoulder. One day when I was practicing slow moving push-hands with a tai chi partner I was granted an insight. My body happened to be rising while his was falling, and my rising shoulder caught him under the chin. When he was finally able to get off the ground, he was bleeding from both nostrils from the slow, under the chin blow.

Another consideration when talking physics, consider conservation of momentum in the rest frame, and think of which of the colliding entities is going to have the greater delta v. Sharp and/or pointy alters the analysis a bit, but these factors still merit contemplation.

P.S. Here's a neat little video.
 
Last edited:

davidf99

Platinum Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
2,390
I was puzzled for many years by a statement of Miyamoto Musashi in the Go Rin No Sho, or Book of 5 Rings. Musashi, the master of the fast-moving katana, advocates striking the opponent with a comparatively slow-moving shoulder. One day when I was practicing slow moving push-hands with a tai chi partner I was granted an insight. My body happened to be rising while his was falling, and my rising shoulder caught him under the chin. When he was finally able to get off the ground, he was bleeding from both nostrils from the slow, under the chin blow.

Another consideration when talking physics, consider conservation of momentum in the rest frame, and think of which of the colliding entities is going to have the greater delta v. Sharp and/or pointy alters the analysis a bit, but these factors still merit contemplation.

I've always thought the shoulder strike -- like the head butt -- makes sense when two opponents are very close together, perhaps each holding the other's wrists. I'm surprised it isn't used more often in MMA competition. Maybe the risk of injury to the shoulder is too great. The head butt, of course, is illegal in MMA.

Your point about conservation of momentum reminds me that one should not try to apply the same analysis to combat and chopping. In combat speed is more important because a body offers less resistance than a log, even to a lighter blade, and does not remain stationary. As Bruce Lee famously put it: Wood doesn't fight back.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,158
I've always thought the shoulder strike -- like the head butt -- makes sense when two opponents are very close together, perhaps each holding the other's wrists. I'm surprised it isn't used more often in MMA competition. Maybe the risk of injury to the shoulder is too great. The head butt, of course, is illegal in MMA.

Your point about conservation of momentum reminds me that one should not try to apply the same analysis to combat and chopping. In combat speed is more important because a body offers less resistance than a log, even to a lighter blade, and does not remain stationary. As Bruce Lee famously put it: Wood doesn't fight back.

Depends. If you clear brush, twigs, branches. They don't provides as much resistance and some fight back like whips with thorns on them :eek:
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
1,914
I say go with what feels good in hand and can be used effectively for the intended purpose.

Just please stop with the AstroPhysics, Calculus, Relativity stuff,

Much Math, Thinking Happening, Brain Hurts, Almost Grasp, Too Late...Melting Down.................................................................
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
2,228
Jens- that would be wonderful. I was looking at those the other night...
Howard- I have had a similar experience- caught a heavy hand in the ribs from a Silat training partner ten years ago-cracked a couple ribs for sure.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
5,431
...
Another consideration when talking physics, consider conservation of momentum in the rest frame, and think of which of the colliding entities is going to have the greater delta v. Sharp and/or pointy alters the analysis a bit, but these factors still merit contemplation.

P.S. Here's a neat little video.

Related to these topics, here's a video of a friend demonstrating an advanced kung fu technique of splitting firewood with only minimal contact from an axe, such that the wood can be setting on big rocks or concrete without damaging the axe. (I'm kidding about the kung fu part, but she does have a black belt.)

[video=youtube_share;7fWo0P0MdJM]http://youtu.be/7fWo0P0MdJM[/video]
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
3,994
tell this woman she may work upon my farm at any time -- and the book of 5 rings is a holy text , I am not into martial arts I value it for its zen
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top