TitaniLor
- Thread starter Lorien
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Hope so, because Mark's Persian Fighter WIP is getting close to the finale!
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This looks exciting. :thumbup::thumbup:
Bing
Bing
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- Jul 6, 2014
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Bigfoot's belt knife?
I like where this is going :thumbup:
I like where this is going :thumbup:
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- Dec 5, 2005
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Back in October 2014, Sam Taylor, (Mecha is his forum handle) dropped me a line to let me know that he was interested in collaborating on a design, and having the result of our collaboration brutally tested. This thread will document the build and testing of this piece.
I have a bit of a specialty going. I don't know of many other people who do what I do with blades in the field, finding usable corridors through the rainforest which will eventually become trails.
The use of large knives- how I use them- is very abusive, but not because I don't take care. Only because the stuff I have to cut requires a lot of force, precision and the plants out here bite back, and sometimes destroy steel tools. I spend hours at a time cutting brush of many various types and textures, often working myself to exhaustion. When coupled with this activity, my interest in design constantly evolves with my experience. Anything that makes it easier to cut, and minimizes maintenance is of great interest to me. Also, a lot of this work requires hiking in, sometimes up to an hour off trail just to get there, so weight is always a consideration. As a gnome sized person, reach is also important.
Many of these variable work at cross purposes and I'm convinced that I will never find the perfect blade for all considerations, but that's what makes the pursuit so endlessly fascinating.
Beta titanium- how the hell to design for such a material? So many unknown variables, but I knew one thing, and that is that the material is maybe 1/2- 2/3s the weight of what I'm used to using. Also, due to Sam's method, the limitations on the dimensions were fairly tight, and I designed to the outer realm of what he's able to forge from the bar stock he has. The other thing I didn't know was how the material would hold an edge, and in order to test that, I made sure the grind line was really high and the edge bevel acute.
Sam is intrigued by beta titanium, and he's invested so much into exploring this material. I am also enthralled by titanium, because I've been riding, (and crashing) a mountain bike made from the stuff since 2001. It's an incredibly resilient and strong material that is completely corrosion proof. I had always thought it questionable that knives made from the material would perform at a high level, and so you might imagine my excitement when Sam asked for my involvement in his pursuit.
Now, I had no idea that titanium could be forged into a blade. I've always known about ti being forged into various shapes via presses, molds, etc, but Sam forged this piece almost completely by hand. That in itself impressed the hell out of me. However, near the end, you can see how he forged it with that ingenious trip hammer he put together, (in my 2nd post).
The following pictures will show the progress;
The next stop is heat treatment, and I have to tell you that the pictures are pretty cool!
I have a bit of a specialty going. I don't know of many other people who do what I do with blades in the field, finding usable corridors through the rainforest which will eventually become trails.
The use of large knives- how I use them- is very abusive, but not because I don't take care. Only because the stuff I have to cut requires a lot of force, precision and the plants out here bite back, and sometimes destroy steel tools. I spend hours at a time cutting brush of many various types and textures, often working myself to exhaustion. When coupled with this activity, my interest in design constantly evolves with my experience. Anything that makes it easier to cut, and minimizes maintenance is of great interest to me. Also, a lot of this work requires hiking in, sometimes up to an hour off trail just to get there, so weight is always a consideration. As a gnome sized person, reach is also important.
Many of these variable work at cross purposes and I'm convinced that I will never find the perfect blade for all considerations, but that's what makes the pursuit so endlessly fascinating.
Beta titanium- how the hell to design for such a material? So many unknown variables, but I knew one thing, and that is that the material is maybe 1/2- 2/3s the weight of what I'm used to using. Also, due to Sam's method, the limitations on the dimensions were fairly tight, and I designed to the outer realm of what he's able to forge from the bar stock he has. The other thing I didn't know was how the material would hold an edge, and in order to test that, I made sure the grind line was really high and the edge bevel acute.
Sam is intrigued by beta titanium, and he's invested so much into exploring this material. I am also enthralled by titanium, because I've been riding, (and crashing) a mountain bike made from the stuff since 2001. It's an incredibly resilient and strong material that is completely corrosion proof. I had always thought it questionable that knives made from the material would perform at a high level, and so you might imagine my excitement when Sam asked for my involvement in his pursuit.
Now, I had no idea that titanium could be forged into a blade. I've always known about ti being forged into various shapes via presses, molds, etc, but Sam forged this piece almost completely by hand. That in itself impressed the hell out of me. However, near the end, you can see how he forged it with that ingenious trip hammer he put together, (in my 2nd post).
The following pictures will show the progress;
The next stop is heat treatment, and I have to tell you that the pictures are pretty cool!
sloth357
Platinum m0f0
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2011
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- 5,012
I like it. And it's not supposed to be some $10000 katana... it's a Ti beat the sh!t outta anything sword that is made here by someone who is dedicated to his Ti and has a strong passion for making sharps...
BUT NOW I KNOW WHY THERE IS NO UO FOR ME YET
Keep up the good work Sam!
BUT NOW I KNOW WHY THERE IS NO UO FOR ME YET
Keep up the good work Sam!
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
I like it. And it's not supposed to be some $10000 katana... it's a Ti beat the sh!t outta anything sword that is made here by someone who is dedicated to his Ti and has a strong passion for making sharps...
BUT NOW I KNOW WHY THERE IS NO UO FOR ME YET
Keep up the good work Sam!
I'm neither commenting on the maker or the material, just the design on this one.
I don't own any $10,000.00 katana...that's a weird number....they are usually around $5,000 for custom US sole authorship, or $20,000-$50,000 for Japanese Nihonto. If it WAS supposed to be a katana, there would be a wall of words about how badly it missed the mark, but this one is CLEARLY a Lorien Arnold design.
This one as the blade is being produced is reminiscent of a Dha.
From Wikipedia:
"Dha vary considerably according to locality but they share a few features the define them apart from other weapons and tools of the area. These features are a round cross-section grip, a long, gently curving blade (sometimes upward, other times downward in the direction of use) with a single edge, and no guard. Knives and swords with these characteristics are viewed by ethnic groups of the region as being of a single type, albeit with variations arising from local style and tradition. There are a large number of possible shapes for the tip, with upswept, downswept, squared-off and spear-like varieties all being found. The blades are often inscribed, which can range from a simple maker's mark to quite intricate designs that may also feature inlays.
Hilts range from hand-width to quite long. A blade/hilt length ratio of 2:1 is not uncommon. Despite these long handles, most dha are meant for single-handed use, although some two-handed weapons exist. Guards are small, if present at all. Thai dha may have a guard similar to the tsuba of the Japanese katana. The Montagnard dha may have a guard that barely exceeds the diameter of the handle and they can be regarded more as a spacer. The construction of the hilt varies widely by type and region or origin. Hilts range from simple wood, possibly wrapped in rattan or covered in ray skin, to elaborately worked silver and ivory. Pommels may or may not be present. Scabbards are made from two strips of wood, often bamboo, secured by metal bands or rattan."
Sometimes...Lorien designs some beauties and sometimes, he designs some ass ugly pieces...imo.....you are free to love it.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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- Dec 27, 2013
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- 9,887
So you got Mecha to make you a big ass ugly sword thing and cut a tree up with it? Great demonstration of the possibilities of the titanium....other than that.......
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
HA! At least I don't call it a katana, right? If you don't like the looks of Lorien's design, then the finished blade is really gonna have you burping your cookies. Having failed miserablyto stretch a bar into Lorien's blade shape, the thing was finished up in rough n' ugly fashion, and sent off for destruction testing. Who better to do real-world third-party evaluation and comparison of the material for use as a big blade than Lorien?
The metal I want to use has to be proven and exhaustively tested, because it's yet to be explored, and so very little is actually know about how it works as a sword.
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- Dec 5, 2005
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- 26,506
Hey Sam, it would be great if you could take a little time at some point and talk about the metallurgical details, and what's got you so amped on ti.
As for the text you quoted, I'll just keep living in ignorance. Much better for my frame of mind
As for the text you quoted, I'll just keep living in ignorance. Much better for my frame of mind
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
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- 12,554
HA! Who better to do real-world third-party evaluation and comparison of the material for use as a big blade than Lorien?
True that, amigo.
Lorien gets some big ol' blades and tests them in a real world scenario that few others can match.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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- Dec 5, 2005
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the only knife show I'll be at this year is Seattle, although I'd love to get down to Oregon one day!
I'll have some more photos of the build, hopefully before I leave for the day. Can't do that tonight since I'll be working on the trail.
I have been out with this blade, and have some videos which I'll post up once I get the other stuff posted. Def by the end of the week.
It's pretty cool to see this blade in action!
I'll have some more photos of the build, hopefully before I leave for the day. Can't do that tonight since I'll be working on the trail.
I have been out with this blade, and have some videos which I'll post up once I get the other stuff posted. Def by the end of the week.
It's pretty cool to see this blade in action!
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2000
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- 8,888
...sent off for destruction testing. Who better to do real-world third-party evaluation and comparison of the material for use as a big blade than Lorien?
I think it's interesting as an experiment. My understanding is that Ti is considerably weaker (stronger for its weight, but weaker head-to-head than a steel blade in the same thickness/configuration) and less wear resistant than steel, and obviously in that configuration will not give the momentum/power-chopping action of a heavier steel blade. But it will be lighter to carry and conceivably faster, as in machete-stroke/slashing speed. Of course, with fullers, full-height grinds and reduced tangs, steel can be lightened to compete in that aspect. But beating the hell out of that Ti blade should provide some interesting anecdotal data--looking forward to seeing how Lorien goes about destroying it.
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