Titanium Sword / Katana?

Since it appears you're still interested, I'll respond with a bit more detail. Your comment is a bit too simplistic, and some of it isn't really exactly correct when it comes to swords (mainly thinking of of the aesthetic part, because while that may be a side benefit, in a sword, a fuller is definitely going to have more than just decorative effect).

There's definitely plenty of good reasons to use fullers. And it's definitely beyond question that a fullered blade is stronger than an unfullered one of equal mass, forged, ground, or whatever. But if you don't mind the extra mass, you don't really lose anything from not fullering, since more material resists deformation better than less material, no matter where you remove it. Think of it this way. Arches are insanely strong. They can support far more weight than you might think, because they're so structurally sound. Fullers work on a similar principle, by distributing the stresses from a particular direction in such a way that more of the material is involved in resisting the force. HOWEVER, it would be a mistake to assume that the arch is stronger than a solid wall to stresses exerted in the same direction.

More, the fullers don't do much to resist forces exerted from other axes, and are particularly weak to torque. The idea is that they shouldn't really get torqued. That tends to be somewhat risky with swords, which definitely CAN and DO get torqued along the length of the blade during combat, but generally it was considered more important to improve the weight distribution. The best blades would be designed for the impacts to be taken along a harmonic curve relative to the design and material, again to improve the durability and power of the blade. Thus, some blades would be fullered and others wouldn't. The cinqueada is a good example of how fullers could be used both to reduce weight and for aesthetics.

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(This one was made by Hanford Miller).

As you can imagine, such a wide blade would be very difficult to balance. The fullers help with that task by reducing weight along the blade, but, due to the complexity of the fuller style, it's also got a very distinctive aesthetic. Fullers can be purely decorative, but only on small blades, in which the weight change is negligible. On a sword, it's definitely going to have an effect. Even a thin fuller can change the balance point by anywhere from half an inch to several inches, and that's without really sacrificing structural integrity. Note, you're not going to GAIN any structural integrity. But you can reduce weight without losing much, if any, depending on the placement and dimensions of the fuller. You may see a notable difference in context of STIFFNESS, however, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the type of sword and its intended uses.

For instance, it's pretty rare to see a fullered rapier or tai chi sword, because those are supposed to bend and be whippy. Making them stiffer, given the low amount of material being used, would just make them more prone to break.

And I just have to point out how untrue it is that fullering has to be done via forging. In fact, the Japanese process of fullering (fullers are called hi, or bohi, if I recall), uses a long, cylindrical draw-knife to cut the material out, and then steel needles to polish. Others use a small wheel on a grinder, but most makers these days use a mill. Even IF you forge it in, you're still essentially removing material. Forging a fuller would widen the blade, requiring less material to forge than an unfullered blade. The process is irrelevant. At the end of the day, you're still decreasing material.

So, you get two effects from a fuller. Aesthetics may play an incidental role in a sword, but you're going to get lighter weight, stiffness (how much can really vary), and you don't significantly decrease strength relative to impacts on the edge. Whether these are necessary for the particular application really depends on what the smith is trying to accomplish.

In this circumstance, working with something that's already quite light, you're going to want to find a balance. Weight, as horseclover has pointed out, can actually be really important to a sword. Except under very specific circumstances (mainly thinking about weapons designed for either piercing (and hence speed), or else intended to be used against unarmored opponents), reducing weight isn't actually necessarily desired, particularly if you don't get the balance right, or the placement of the point of percussion in the correct spot along the harmonic curve. A really light blade would be entirely unable to penetrate even light armor, for instance, where a heavier blade would have the power to defeat the same armor. A cheap plastic soccer shin-guard provides a good example. A heavy steel blade can actually cut through. I'd be interested to see if one of these Ti blades would be capable of the feat. Will fullering provide an advantage? I'm not really seeing one, except for applications like the fantasy weapons I mentioned earlier, in which you'd still want to reduce weight. And it would be pretty darn cool to see a functional buster sword that could actually be wielded reasonably, although I'm not sure even Ti could accomplish that goal. Something to consider, perhaps, Mecha?
 
You'd be amazed how many people say they want a buster sword. I have a friend who wants this:

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the shattered buster sword's blade, and I aim to make it!

Crimsonfalcon,

The historical photographic evidence in my reference book definitely shows many blades that were fullered by material removal, as well as ones that were forged. The photos also reveal that the makers who created the swords added or avoided fullers based, as you say, on the type of sword and the blade's intended purpose. Some of the more ornate or overtly fullered blades pictured were for parade or ceremonial purposes, many others had very small fullers at specific areas on the blades.

One thing is for sure: nobody went through the trouble to put them on blades unless it was in order to impart some quality, and the ones without fullers were made without them on purpose as well, in order to retain other qualities. None of this stuff is on accident. In addition, pretty much every type of blade represented had some fullered and some non, from bayonets to spear-tips, daggers to broadswords.

By studying the blades, it looks as if the main purpose of the fullers is to impart some stiffness into the shape, followed by weight considerations. As for my blades, they will remain unfullered for the time being, as the ti is both lightweight and stiff. But if adding a fuller will make the blade even "bigger" by spreading it out without losing any good qualities, then some will eventually have them, as my stock is a bit small.

A full-size buster sword that could be reasonable wielded... HOLY BEJEEZUS that's a big piece of titanium.

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Oh yeah. Those aren't small. It would be expensive to make for sure, just getting big enough stock. Did you see the one that Rick Stratton made on ManAtArms?
 
and the ones without fullers were made without them on purpose as well, in order to retain other qualities.
At times, simply a matter of economy in manufacture, Especially so with early modern militaria,

Cheers

GC
 
Thanks, GC. ^
OK. I placed an order with mecha. An Aikuchi. My Tikat needs a companion.
rolf
 
Hello folks,

Been working on several titanium knives and swords, including finishing some grade 5 experimental swords, so there should be be new photos coming along.

Here is a wakizashi-sized beta alloy blade, ready for quench-hardening! When it gets quenched, it will curve like a Japanese katana and gain tension within itself. It weighs 7.5 ounces. The blade is 17 inches, 24 inches overall.


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-Mecha
 
A full-size buster sword that could be reasonable wielded... HOLY BEJEEZUS that's a big piece of titanium.

Even with .100" stock, that blade would be impossible to yield effectively. Maybe a carbon fiber blade with a titanium edge. Like something Warren Thomas might make or something. BTW Mecha, interested in hearing how your Ti blade turns out, please keep us updated or PM me. I work a lot with titanium and its various alloys so I'm pretty excited to hear/see how it performs.
 
Here is a wakizashi-sized beta alloy blade, ready for quench-hardening! When it gets quenched, it will curve like a Japanese katana and gain tension within itself. It weighs 7.5 ounces. The blade is 17 inches, 24 inches overall.

Hi Mecha,

I have to reiterate that a blade that light will give most JSA cutters fits. There is feedback that you develop by cutting with Japanese blades, you learn which blades need to be "muscled" through cutting media and which "run"....a blade this light would fit neither category, it would seem to almost "float" and would require significant "retooling" of the cutter's thought processes/muscle memory.

It's still very interesting though, and I would love to experiment with cutting using this blade.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
STeven- Think about making an order. You can test the sword and if you like it keep it and if not, it will sell.
rolf
 
STeven- Think about making an order. You can test the sword and if you like it keep it and if not, it will sell.
rolf

Sword? No. I know what my minimum weights to work with are.

Tanto? Maybe. Here's the thing Rolf, you think it will sell for sure...and it might not.....I'm not willing to gamble on it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
The best way to overcome the skepticism of the folks here would be to do a pass around; just saying....
 
Titanium for a stabbing sword would be okay.
Titanium gladius...oh my. :)

Actually, for some of the older folks I know who would like a blade with reach, but who have joint and tendon issues, a reduced weight stabber of that nature would be just the ticket. :thumbup:

So yeah, I'd go more the gladius than katana route with titanium.
 
Titanium for a stabbing sword would be okay.
Titanium gladius...oh my. :)

Actually, for some of the older folks I know who would like a blade with reach, but who have joint and tendon issues, a reduced weight stabber of that nature would be just the ticket. :thumbup:

So yeah, I'd go more the gladius than katana route with titanium.

This ^^^^^^^^^^
 
Thanks for the suggestions and interest, folks.

Don't worry Lycosa, there is plenty of blade work to do because I'll be at the 39th annual Oregon Knife Show in Eugene, Or, April 12-13, and will bring an array of Mad Science titanium swords and knives. I'll also bring in the S.A.M. hammer for display!

Below is the little wakizashi, after heat-treatment. The two larger blades are the time-lapse katanas from the forging video posted earlier. They also have been quenched, and are straight, ninja-style. These three (will the grinding NEVER end!?!) will be at the knife show, as well as a few others swords.

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-mecha
 
As a former Tai-Chi student (Yang style) I'd be interested in seeing a jian-type sword like this. Jian are light slashing weapons that use the tip area to sever tendons and veins, so they're more leverage than momentum-based, and would benefit from being lightweight.

Just as a heads up though, a combat ready jian shouldn't be at all wibbly-wobbly like you see in the movies of the last 20 years or so. That's a wu-shu thing, and contrary to pop-culture misconception, wu-shu is a kind of floor gymnastics loosely modeled on martial arts, not an actual martial art itself. Wu Shu weapons are floppy because it makes for nice theatrical flourishes. A combat-ready jian though shouldn't flex any more than a katana or saber should, as that would severely impair precision.
 
Both jian and dao are at the top of my list for future swords, as are European rapiers, and all of them will be stiff and sharp. Chinese martial arts practicioners will see a dramatic and thrilling change in quickness and accuracy with a titanium sword. The balance of my swords (even the European and katana-shaped ones) is designed around Chinese saber and jian forms, pre-people's revolution.
 
Thanks, mecha and thank for the pix.
I'll stand by my statement that these Ti blades will become popular and will be here to stay.
rolf
 
Kohai,

I would love to have someone of the Japanese cutting arts test one of my blades in that arena. What is the blade length you look for in a cutting sword? Let me forge up a proper cutter with a good length after this upcoming knife show, and I'll try to get it in your grip for a review!

-mecha
 
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