Uneven Bevel On My Paramilitary 2

Luis G. said:
Dont talk about wood man. I still got a .5" hot spot from cutting up some wood 2 days ago for a good while.
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Luis, I just reread your post. You got a HUGE MONSTER GIGANTIC half inch hot spot? OMG! I hope it heals this year.
 
Luis, you are aware that many Emersons have normal saber type grinds but chisel EDGES, right? This throws your whole argument out of the water. So, the main grind is just like many other knives, yet they only put an edge bevel on one side. Both sides are ground in that V shape, yet the edge is invariably off center much more than a poorly ground Spyderco is. I think if there was some real world issue that this not centered edge offered we would know about it. I don't think you are necessarily wrong in the theory of your points, just that in practice we already constantly put way more pressure on one side of a blade than the other. Take carving into some hard wood. When I do it I know the left side of my edge is being loaded with most of the pressure...

What this means in regards to the OP is that, yes an uneven edge isn't that great and I don't think you'd be wrong to send it in for sharpening and/or replacement. (though I doubt the 2-3mm difference bit, that seems a bit extreme) but I think if you are a guy who will really be using your knife, hence really sharpening it, it's really not much of an issue. And not worth waiting for a factory to do something about it. Especially on a knife that is nearly impossible to find these days :p If the design really suits you, don't let a little hand sharpened issue put it off. And I think wanting a BM, which you will probably have to COMPLETELY reprofile anyways if you want any decent edge angle on is a bit interesting of a choice... Though BMs are good knives. I just look at having to reprofile a complete knife as a little more extreme then sharpening out a bit of an edge discrepancy.

Different strokes. I know I am far less OCD about my knives on here than many, so I don't doubt this being a larger aesthetic issue to plenty of the good folks on here.
 
goodeyesniper said:
Luis, you are aware that many Emersons have normal saber type grinds but chisel EDGES, right? This throws your whole argument out of the water. So, the main grind is just like many other knives, yet they only put an edge bevel on one side. Both sides are ground in that V shape, yet the edge is invariably off center much more than a poorly ground Spyderco is. I think if there was some real world issue that this not centered edge offered we would know about it. I don't think you are necessarily wrong in the theory of your points, just that in practice we already constantly put way more pressure on one side of a blade than the other. Take carving into some hard wood. When I do it I know the left side of my edge is being loaded with most of the pressure...

What this means in regards to the OP is that, yes an uneven edge isn't that great and I don't think you'd be wrong to send it in for sharpening and/or replacement. (though I doubt the 2-3mm difference bit, that seems a bit extreme) but I think if you are a guy who will really be using your knife, hence really sharpening it, it's really not much of an issue. And not worth waiting for a factory to do something about it. Especially on a knife that is nearly impossible to find these days :p If the design really suits you, don't let a little hand sharpened issue put it off. And I think wanting a BM, which you will probably have to COMPLETELY reprofile anyways if you want any decent edge angle on is a bit interesting of a choice... Though BMs are good knives. I just look at having to reprofile a complete knife as a little more extreme then sharpening out a bit of an edge discrepancy.

Different strokes. I know I am far less OCD about my knives on here than many, so I don't doubt this being a larger aesthetic issue to plenty of the good folks on here.
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Again, a chisel grind is completely different from a V grind and pretty much impossible to butcher hence why Emerson probably prefers using it (cheaper to make too). Again a V grind is susceptible to stresses on both sides of the edge, not just one.

Not really going to keep discussing this, all I will say is there's a very noticeable difference when cutting with a centered and straight edge compared to a crooked and off center edge on a V grind.
If you want an easy test to check for a crooked edge, make sure there's no wire edge or burr:
Grab a wrinkled up wrapper (magazine print is good). A well centered and straight edge will cut straight through it regardless of all the wrinkles. A crooked edge will cut it only going one way, while the other side will catch the paper unless you set it at an awkward angle.
 
BladePics said:
Where is the knife made? If it was made in Japan that's how they do it. Their blades are not 50/50, more like 70/30, and a lot sharper because of that.
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Sharpness has nothing to do with a blades bevels being 70/30 or 50/50 or 100/0.

Sharp has everything to do with those edge bevels apexing cleanly.
 
JNewell said:
You two are doing a great job of derailing a legitimate thread. :thumbdn:
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Thanks for noticing! :D I do my best.

You still buy this whine fest as legit? OP has a knife that's so flawed that it works perfectly. But we need to discuss the issue forever. Because Spyderco puts out such crap we need to expose them.
 
BladePics said:
Where is the knife made? If it was made in Japan that's how they do it. Their blades are not 50/50, more like 70/30, and a lot sharper because of that.
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Wait, wut?...

Pretty much every factory knife I've ever purchased BNIB has had uneven bevels, some more than others. None have caused any issues and most have been reprofiled anyway so it's a moot point for me unless it's really bad.

That said, I've never returned a knife yet because of perceived edge bevel inconsistencies out of a least fifty plus knives I've purchased... Maybe I'm defective? :foot:
 
Luis G. said:
Again, a chisel grind is completely different from a V grind and pretty much impossible to butcher hence why Emerson probably prefers using it (cheaper to make too). Again a V grind is susceptible to stresses on both sides of the edge, not just one.

Not really going to keep discussing this, all I will say is there's a very noticeable difference when cutting with a centered and straight edge compared to a crooked and off center edge on a V grind.
If you want an easy test to check for a crooked edge, make sure there's no wire edge or burr:
Grab a wrinkled up wrapper (magazine print is good). A well centered and straight edge will cut straight through it regardless of all the wrinkles. A crooked edge will cut it only going one way, while the other side will catch the paper unless you set it at an awkward angle.
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I am just trying to correct what I think you are unaware of. There are two completely different things. Chisel GRINDS and chisel EDGES. EVERY emerson has a chisel edge from the factory, but only some have an overall chisel grind. Imagine a Spyderco Endura with a saber grind, before the factory put an edge on. Now Imagine they only grind the edge on one side when sharpening. That is what Emerson does on their v grinds. Their v grinds, have chisel edges.
 
OK, let the chisel grind, saber grind issue GO!!!!! You are all brilliant and all correct! Now you all had your egos stroked, so move on!
 
jimh0220 said:
Thanks for noticing! :D I do my best.

You still buy this whine fest as legit? OP has a knife that's so flawed that it works perfectly. But we need to discuss the issue forever. Because Spyderco puts out such crap we need to expose them.
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It happens. Blades are hand finished and even I, hell, even you, get things wrong once or twice a decade. If the OP's post was legitimate, and it certainly reads that way, you guys long ago scared him off discussing each other forever. :rolleyes:
 
jimh0220 said:
OK, let the chisel grind, saber grind issue GO!!!!! You are all brilliant and all correct! Now you all had your egos stroked, so move on!
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No need to cry outloud for attention with your sarcasmif you don't like what we write don't read it.
 
I am impatiently waiting for my Para 2 to arrive. I think blade HQ sold out of them in a couple hours or at some absurd rate. Anyway, I'm going to EDC that bad boy when it gets here.
 
JNewell said:
It happens. Blades are hand finished and even I, hell, even you, get things wrong once or twice a decade. If the OP's post was legitimate, and it certainly reads that way, you guys long ago scared him off discussing each other forever. :rolleyes:
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Then my evil plan worked! Bwah ha ha ha ha! BTW, I beg to differ. I am NEVER wrong. Just ask me.
 
Luis G. said:
It is not just a V grind at an angle. That is completely incorrect. A chisel grind is a completely different geometry and cutting function compared to a V grind. A chisel grind only pushes one side of the material being cut while the other side remains unaffected. On a V grind BOTH sides are pushed away thus BOTH sides of the blade are affected by friction and pressure.
The reason they are different is because on a V grind you require BOTH sides to be even if they are not even, they offset the edge. Compare that to a chisel ground which does not matter because one side is flat.

What I am saying is if you take the paramilitary 2 it is flat ground on both sides. If you split the blade in half on the length of the spine you will theoretically end up with two equal parts with equal tapers and thickness.
If one side is ground to 20 degrees, and another side is ground to 20 degrees and you take care to set the bevel to the same width. the edge will be dead smack in the middle and be centered. Lateral stresses will not be a major issue.

If you grind on side to a different angle it requires more or less material to be removed to reach the edge and you will end up with a crooked edge. even if you take care not to end up with a crooked edge, it will be off set and will be prone to lateral stresses due to the differences in bevels (will be very very dramatic to get an even edge when the angles don't match).

This makes the edge crooked not centered nor straight. This is what I meant by increasing lateral stress.
Both edges will last the same, just in heavier use, the one that is crooked will be far more prone to nicks and rolls because of that added lateral stress.

It will also cause issue when sharpening using a microbevel. (more prone to stubborn wire edges, far more prone).

Lastly forgot to mention:
A few degrees (thousandths of an inch of the edge) can mean the difference between double digit percentages in edge retention. (16~ vs 20 degrees on a .010 behind the edge, you are talking about .01-.02") difference barely to the thickness of the bevels.
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Are you able to cite a source for this information?
 
southernknives said:
I am impatiently waiting for my Para 2 to arrive. I think blade HQ sold out of them in a couple hours or at some absurd rate. Anyway, I'm going to EDC that bad boy when it gets here.
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Maybe you'll be as lucky as I was to get these "beautiful" grinds (good thing I only paid $109.00 last Jan.):

Left side 2mm's at the widest:

Left-widebevel.jpg


Right side 1mm at the widest:

Right-narrowbevel.jpg
 
chambelona59 said:
Maybe you'll be as lucky as I was to get these "beautiful" grinds (good thing I only paid $109.00 last Jan.):

Left side 2mm's at the widest:

Left-widebevel.jpg


Right side 1mm at the widest:

Right-narrowbevel.jpg
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See, that edge is uneven, but for my taste, the right side of the bevel and most of the left side is far too obtuse anyway. I would be reprofiling that bevel, even if it were perfect, to a much more acute angle, that would match, or even surpass the widest (read: thinnest edge angle) spot on that bevel anyway. In that sense, when comparing it to a benchmade, which routinely come from with factory with 50ish° bevels, I would still be doing less work and removing less steel to get the spyderco where I wanted it than I would with the benchmade. Benchmade's edges are getting better in terms of sharpness, and they are often pretty good in terms of evenness of the bevel from side to side, but a nice, crisp, even bevel at 50° inclusive is not doing me any good.
 
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