Vg 10 bad edge retention?

I recall VG-10 being touted as high quality cutlery steel used by premium companies such as Al Mar and Falkniven. "Super" may not even have been in the lexicon of knife people at the time but most of us considered it really "good stuff". I agree, the best attributes of VG-10 is how sharp it can get and how easy it is to get it sharp again. That's still important to me and I would guess a few others.

Sometimes I think the only reason for "super steels" that can stay sharp longer is because so many people don't know how to sharpen their knives. I wonder how many people buy knives with S30V, ZPD-189, etc., and end up tossing them in a drawer and never use them again when they get dull. Personally, I'm pretty good at sharpening and I can get these knives sharp but I don't particularly like the process of doing it.

I'm a fan of VG-10, 420HC, AUS8A, 440C and 154CM. Good quality steels that perform well, get really sharp and sharpens quickly.
 
I've carried a Spyderco Endura Wave which has a VG10 blade and from my experience it's edge retention leaves something to be desired. To be honest, the edge would roll and chip fairly easily too. It's the easiest steel I've personally sharpened but dulls rather easily as well.
 
Things tend to wear when they get used.

VG10 is one of them.

Its an OK steel. I like it.

But if it not to your liking. Get ZDP.
 
VG10 is great. Don't make it something it isn't and you won't be disappointed. If you use a knife it will get dull and it will need to be resharpened. There are many variables that will influence this. People seem to like to hate on things that aren't new. I would have a hard time picking a better steel for a kitchen knife and for and EDC knife it is also great. If you use your pocket knife a lot in a day it may not be enough. Only you know your needs. Sharpening technique is an often overlooked factor in edge retention as is cutting technique. This isn't simple stuff. "Dull as a butter knife" is a hyperbole and if not then you are not getting the same performance as me. S110V it is not but it isn't 1095 either.
 
Things tend to wear when they get used.

VG10 is one of them.

Its an OK steel. I like it.

But if it not to your liking. Get ZDP.

Hah! Like most people, my sharpening skills leave a lot to be desired. I'll take the lesser edge retention of VG-10 because I know I'll be able to sharpen it after it dulls. ;)
Perhaps if my sharpening skills improve, I'll try ZDP-189.
 
"Super" is a marketing term that doesn't mean anything. VG-10 works great and it's still widely available in kitchen cutlery. Learning how to sharpen is very important.
 
I can put an extremely fine razor edge on my caly 3.5 with a sharpmaker. It's my work knife and by the end of the day after cutting stuff like paper, plastic tubes, tape, fabric, etc it is dull as a butter knife at the end of the day. Is this typical?

Not in my experience. Might be a small burr causing the issues.
 
It's an entry level workhorse steel and a good value. Is there a such thing as a perfect steel? Every chemical composition has its trade-offs.
 
Jason,

If the VG10 burrs easily, wouldn't that makes it hard to sharpen?
You mentioned it's designed to take fine edge & resharpened easily, and recommended not so high polish. It seems contradictory to me.

Can you help explain it more?
 
I actually think VG10 has one of the best balance of properties of any steel. It does everything fairly well. There is no perfect steel and it is all compromises. VG10 is extremely well rounded.
 
Chris "Anagarika";15552881 said:
Jason,

If the VG10 burrs easily, wouldn't that makes it hard to sharpen?
You mentioned it's designed to take fine edge & resharpened easily, and recommended not so high polish. It seems contradictory to me.

Can you help explain it more?

At high levels of hardness it can take and hold a fine edge easily. You will not find high levels of hardness in a folding knife like you will find in a kitchen knife.

VG-10 is know to hold on to its burr but that is only an issue at the very end of sharpening and not something that will inhibit sharpness.

I recommend not so high of a polish because we are not using straight razors. You go much past a 4000 grit waterstone or Fine Spyderco ceramic and the edge holding ability of any pocket knife or kitchen knife drops off a cliff. The edge needs some tooth to work properly and when sharpened to a very fine edge then put through tough tasks such as cardboard, rope or plastic it quickly wears down.

Just because a steel can be taken to a fine edge does not mean it will perform every task with that edge. You must balance the edge finish with the cutting tasks it will see.
 
Yes, very typical for VG-10 with a high polish. Leave it a little coarser and it will perform better.
+1
I stopped using fine stones on my VG10 pocket knives years ago. It hold much better. Just medium works better for me. I use fine on my VG10 kitchen knives.
Another thought: you mentioned cutting tape, which leaving residue. Residue will make the blade feel dull as well. Clean it.
I use my VG10 pocket knives for more than 10 years, they are fine even on cardboard, not as S110V, but do do not need to spend couple hours to reprofile either.
 
To the OP, if you're cutting tape, try cleaning the blade with acetone. I've had blades seem dull, but they were just covered in tape glue and crud.

On the topic of VG 10, it holds a better edge than 20CV in my head to head tests, though the difference is small.
 
Despite me finding your post rather insulting I will answer without being rude.

Super steels can easily be defined by the process in which they are formed, PM steels = Super steels, Non PM steels = Not super steels...S30V was designed as a cutlery steel just like VG-10. Actually, S30V has always been compared against 440c and 154cm, this is especially true if you look at Crucible's data. It was not the answer to VG-10 but a timely opponent...

Sorry you feel insulted, I hoped to mitigate it by the :) you know, men giving each other some "guff."

Well I beg to differ on super steels. I don't accept your definition of "super". When VG10 came out it was the hot steel of the year and stayed that way for awhile. Your definition of "Super" is it must be PM steel. Sorry not in my book. I prefer to define super has the hot steel of the time.

VG10 was not available to the US manufacturers and custom makers, thus Crucible with help from Chris Reeve came up with S30V. That's history. The reason why Crucible's literature does not compare itself to VG10 should be self-evident...it ain't really better.

You are correct that VG10 was first used in horticulture, but I believe Spyderco is first to use it in knives designed for general use. I believe the Moran was the first VG10 Spyderco as a tribute to Bill Moran, master bladesmith and creator of modern damascus. The Moran is still made today and still in VG10.
 
Jason,

Thank you. I'm going to ponder about it along with my observation.

me2,

Which VG10 did you use? It seems there're quite a variation from folder to kitchen knives.
 
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Sorry you feel insulted, I hoped to mitigate it by the :) you know, men giving each other some "guff."

Well I beg to differ on super steels. I don't accept your definition of "super". When VG10 came out it was the hot steel of the year and stayed that way for awhile. Your definition of "Super" is it must be PM steel. Sorry not in my book. I prefer to define super has the hot steel of the time.

VG10 was not available to the US manufacturers and custom makers, thus Crucible with help from Chris Reeve came up with S30V. That's history. The reason why Crucible's literature does not compare itself to VG10 should be self-evident...it ain't really better.

You are correct that VG10 was first used in horticulture, but I believe Spyderco is first to use it in knives designed for general use. I believe the Moran was the first VG10 Spyderco as a tribute to Bill Moran, master bladesmith and creator of modern damascus. The Moran is still made today and still in VG10.

I'm inclined to agree. Powdered metallurgy does not strictly define "super steel." There is no actual definition. That said, PM steels are incredible performers. I have used knives ranging from Case carbon vn to CTS-204P and K390 and each has ups and downs. The knives on me now are an ESEE Izula in 1095 and a Spyderco Jot Singh Khalsa in Gin-1 and both meet my needs for edge retention, toughness and ease of sharpening.
 
I am a novice sharpener. I have used my Sharpmaker to sharpen my Centofante 3 with VG10 and my Caly 3 with ZDP-189. Guess what - I got a sharper edge on the Centofante than the Caly 3. So what should I do to get a really sharp edge on the Caly - do a lot more strokes on the Sharpmaker? How many? I've watched the video in which Sal demonstrates the use of the Sharpmaker, doing 20 strokes on each side for each of the four positions with the sharp stones. But I'm not sure what steel he is demonstrating on.
 
To the OP: how long have you been using this knife? Have you been using and sharpening it enough to deal with a potentially burnt edge?

On "super steels", while it is obviously a highly subjective term my understanding is that it was a reference of steels which were less of a compromise, ie those which had good edge retention AND decent toughness AND a fine grain AND corrosion resistance. Powder metallurgy never directly came into it. Of course over the years it's been the PM steels which excel the most in all those areas.
 
S30V was designed as a cutlery steel just like VG-10. Actually, S30V has always been compared against 440c and 154cm, this is especially true if you look at Crucible's data. It was not the answer to VG-10 but a timely opponent.

.

Most of my knives have been in 440C. The range from the worst I have ever seen to the best I have ever seen.

I have a large RJ Martin in S30V, and in my opinion that steel completely ruined the knife: It gets wire edges on Maple in ten chops, while Randall's 440B doesn't in a thousand, this with a much thinner sharper edge... It could be an issue of the knife's "stability" when it hits wood, but based on this I would avoid all CPM steels for choppers...

Aus-6 and Aus-8 are among the best in my experience, and compare to 440C and D-2.

VG-1 performed very well: I don't know how it compares to VG-10, but it certainly is more encouraging than my experience with S30V!

Gaston
 
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