Vintage Buck 119 info?

David Martin said:
It looks like Tom's 119 is a 2 and 1 spacer. Which is wrong for 1977.
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David,

I still disagree. The 119, and probably 120, spacer change was different than the other 100 Series models. There are at least four, 3 spacer 119s on eBay right now with flap sheaths (see post #11) and several with swivel sheaths. It's hard to believe that these 3 spacer 119s are all mismatched with the wrong sheath and all are flap style. The pristine, boxed 119 shown above has the 1977 sales receipt. To me, that's pretty strong evidence that 3 spacer 119s were around in at least 1977. There are just too many other examples of 3 spacer 119s that suggest they were around throughout the mid and late 70s.

In posts (quoted below) from a 2011 thread discussing the 119, you and Joe Houser state that 2 spacer knives appeared in 1981, which means 3 spacer knives would have been mostly seen in the 70s.

David Martin said:
The knives with one micarta spacer in the front and rear of the handle are from Group 4 knives and mfg. in 1981-86 making their blade of 425M steel. DM
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Joe Houser said:
Sometimes the spacers next to the black handle can be very hard to see but if it only has one spacer in the guard and pommel, then David is correct in the steel type and timeframe.
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Complete thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/878594-Older-119-steel-question?p=9959528#post9959528

Not trying to be confrontational, I just enjoy the mystery and research. Would love to hear more of your thoughts as I highly respect your opinion.
 
Tom, when I said, "which is wrong for 1977". Do you think I could have been saying, which is wrong data we (some of us) have been operating off of for 1977. These glaring examples pop up like this every few years. Which causes us guys that took the time and money to attend seminars and hear folks in the know speak. To cause us to wonder about the validity of their research. Which is what we've been operating off of. You have to go by someone's research and I'd pick a long term Buck employee over a collector like me. DM
 
David Martin said:
Tom, when I said, "which is wrong for 1977". Do you think I could have been saying, which is wrong data we (some of us) have been operating off of for 1977.
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Sorry for the misunderstanding, David. I think others misunderstood as well. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Too bad we don't have a long term Buck employee active on the forum. That would be ideal. :)
 
I for one find all of this interesting. I just checked (not trying to derail) my father's 102 4 spacer that I gave him years ago. It has a flap sheath with Buck on the snap and Buck stamped on the flap, as well. I need to get my camping gear down and check my 120, which, if I understand correctly, went along with the 119 for updates and sheaths.
 
As someone new to this forum (long time member of stereo forums) I have found you have to get to "know" the other members and how they comunicate. Read between the lines so to say.
With all due respect to Mr. Martin I have to read his posts with care and twice sometimes. So, I was misunderstanding as well.

Cheers to a good weekend and Happy Holidays.
 
Go for a check to my collection now. Ler's see what I'll get to know. [emoji41][emoji851][emoji363][emoji102][emoji165]

Haebbie
 
Thanks Haebbie! Looking forward to any additional information.

Actually, I'm trying to pin down what type of steel was used on the knife in my original post (see below). From the extensive research I've done on the forum (including posts from Joe Houser), it appears 3 spacer 119s are 440C and 2 spacer 119s are 425M. That places this knife and sheath at 1980, or a little early, in my estimate. Do you agree? I'm starting to wonder if the box/paperwork is original to the knife and sheath.



TAH said:
This 119 has one Micarta spacer in the guard and two Micarta spacers in the pommel. Based on the number of spacers and sheath style, what is the date range of this one?

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Well, I can't throw more light upon the Question. I own a three line four spacer 119 but it drowses in the wrong sheath. I bougt it without any sheath and put it into a 1986 sheath I bought a time before. I thougt I have another one with box, paperwork and fitting sheath. But that's a reading tip down three liner. Sorry, David, I can't confirm our opinion with my own collection.

Haebbie
 
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TAH said:
... that places this knife and sheath at 1980, or a little early, in my estimate. Do you agree? I'm starting to wonder if the box/paperwork is original to the knife and sheath.
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1980 would be ok.

Haebbie
 
If it has the thick edge grind then I'd say the blade is of 440C. If it has a full hollow grind, then I'd say the blade is of 425M steel. DM
 
Thanks Haebbie and David. I'll give you an update when it arrives.
 
Ok, Haebbie I'm on the same page as you. I went to the Club site and found the article Joe H. wrote in Dec. 2004 on, "Dating 100 Series Knives". Yes, that was the way he presented his findings in 2008. The 2 & 1 spacers were early 1981 and the 1 & 1 spacers were late 1981- 86. Knives in early 81 had swivel sheaths. Later penning in late 81 all type sheaths could be found. Which I agree with. Anyone here may disagree but he is a 25 year employee and has looked at hundreds of this era knives. He admits a mistake could be made but I'm sure he's examined more models than anyone here.
Tom, could your 119 have a miss packaged box and receipt? DM
 
David Martin said:
The 2 & 1 spacers were early 1981 and the 1 & 1 spacers were late 1981- 86.
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David, I believe this is true for most of the 100 Series knives, but not the 119 and 120. There are just too many 119s and 120s on eBay alone that have 3 spacers and a flap sheath. No way all of these knives have been mismatched with a flap sheath. Please scroll through these photos and let me know what you think. Thanks! :)


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And a few 120s...

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David Martin said:
Tom, could your 119 have a miss packaged box and receipt? DM
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The 119 above with the sales receipt is not mine - just an example from eBay. Here's another eBay 119 with 3 spacers, swivel sheath, 2 piece box and Use & Care dated 1977.

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Tom, I think it's time to put this thread to bed. As David would say....
We've beat the horse enough.
 
Joe said in the article of reference, that flap over sheaths were found during 81. On that point we're standing on the same stump. That works us down to the point of 2 & 1 spacers time frame. The blade steel could be another point but that's not as well defined in 1981. A transition year. So, we found exceptions to Joe Houser's writing. Still, examining his evidence I could have written the same thing. I'll pen an applicable story in the next post. DM
 
IN early January 1982 my brother and I scouted a ranch looking at it for a possible deer lease. Early in 81 we had both bought Buck knives and took them on this trip. He a 119 and me a 120. His model had 2 & 1 spacers, the thick curving upward blade and a flap over sheath. Mine had a full hollow thinner grind, 1 & 1 spacers and a flap over sheath. During this camping / scouting trip I used his 119 some and liked it. Afterward, 1-2 months later I purchased a 119. Taking it out of the box and comparing it with his I noticed it had the thick grind, curving up swept blade, 2 & 1 spacers but a snoopy sheath. We still have these knives. Three first hand examples, adding nothing toward the spacers being offered earlier. ( I bent your way but they did tell us something.)DM
 
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