W2 heat treating results

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Carter, just for clarification, you are not forging, stock removal only right???

My experience with Aldo’s W2 was the generation before this one. I had heard about problems that guys were getting soft spots in the latest W2 from Aldo. I had 5 bars of the stuff. 3 of the bars had no issue at all. Then I got to the last 2 bars. 4’ x 2” x .125”+. The chef’s knives in both of these bars had obvious soft spots scattered throughout. Even on the edge (which was ground prior to HT at 0.030”). Quenched in Parks 50 (90f) 1460f aus temp (after 1650f normalize and 3x thermal cycle 1500f)


Not acceptable at all. Super frustrating. This was the W2 generation previous to the last most recent W2. IIRC, the gen1 and gen2 was ok. I have some gen2 1/4” that hardens great. The generation 3-modern sucks. If you’re forging it....you probably won’t have too much of an issue. If just stock removal, you’re better off with a different steel. As it seems to be. Too many complaints of the same thing. Soft spots. Needing 2000f normalizing temps. Too low carbon %. Too heavily spheroidized.

Too many issues and complaints with W2 recently. Which is really a shame. I wanted to try the new 0.090” stuff. No way Jose. I’ve heard of too many makers having too many problems.
 
samuraistuart said:
Carter, just for clarification, you are not forging, stock removal only right???

My experience with Aldo’s W2 was the generation before this one. I had heard about problems that guys were getting soft spots in the latest W2 from Aldo. I had 5 bars of the stuff. 3 of the bars had no issue at all. Then I got to the last 2 bars. 4’ x 2” x .125”+. The chef’s knives in both of these bars had obvious soft spots scattered throughout. Even on the edge (which was ground prior to HT at 0.030”). Quenched in Parks 50 (90f) 1460f aus temp (after 1650f normalize and 3x thermal cycle 1500f)


Not acceptable at all. Super frustrating. This was the W2 generation previous to the last most recent W2. IIRC, the gen1 and gen2 was ok. I have some gen2 1/4” that hardens great. The generation 3-modern sucks. If you’re forging it....you probably won’t have too much of an issue. If just stock removal, you’re better off with a different steel. As it seems to be. Too many complaints of the same thing. Soft spots. Needing 2000f normalizing temps. Too low carbon %. Too heavily spheroidized.

Too many issues and complaints with W2 recently. Which is really a shame. I wanted to try the new 0.090” stuff. No way Jose. I’ve heard of too many makers having too many problems.
Click to expand...

The stock from 1-2 years ago is fine. It’s just as the older stock runs out, new the newest batch sucks.
 
I did 3 more coupons today resulting from my discussion with samuraistuart samuraistuart . I Normalized each one at 2000 X 10min then thermal cycled at 1500 X 10min X 3. Then used 3 different aus temps for the 3 coupons. (1460, 1480 and 1500 X 10 min.) all quenched in P50. All coupons were surface ground to remove decarb.
As quenched RC Results:
1460: 30, 58, 66
1480: 63, 63, 63
1500: 65, 66, 65 broke this coupon and the grain looks good.
So with my equipment and setup it looks like it's going to be coat with ATP641, normalize 2000 X 10min, cycle at 1500 X 10min X 3 then aus at 1500 X 10 min quench P50.
 
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Wonder if thats the issue with the hamons i was trying to get. Did 3 similar knives. Stock removal on these, W2 from aldo about 4mos ago. Normalized 1600/1475/1300. 1450aust and parks 50. Did this 3 times and getting spotty hamons
 

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These blades are stock removal from Aldo W2 ordered within the last 6 months...used Rutland's cement to clay these blades....they are HT with the recipe I listed above and are approx 63Rc. I think the hamons are on point with what I was going for....both blades are straight from the Fc etch...no polishing.

MsMzCjU.jpg
 
CWendling said:
Wonder if thats the issue with the hamons i was trying to get. Did 3 similar knives. Stock removal on these, W2 from aldo about 4mos ago. Normalized 1600/1475/1300. 1450aust and parks 50. Did this 3 times and getting spotty hamons
Click to expand...

Still cool looking hamon, Cory. In my experience the hamon has been good it's just the inconsistent hardening. Did you get the hardness you were expecting?

Carterwhopkins said:
These blades are stock removal from Aldo W2 ordered within the last 6 months...used Rutland's cement to clay these blades....they are HT with the recipe I listed above and are approx 63Rc. I think the hamons are on point with what I was going for....both blades are straight from the Fc etch...no polishing.
Click to expand...

Nice hamon, Carter, that's similar to what I've been seeing.
 
I had a chance to heat treat a few more coupons with the high temp normalization/triple thermal cycle protocol.
I did one coupon at 1525/quench in P50 and got 69,70,69!
The other at 1550/quench in P50 went back down to 64,63,62.
Thanks Willie71 Willie71 for the suggestion.

It looks like my protocol for this batch of W2 is now going to be:
2000 X 10 min air cool
1500 X 10 min air cool X 3
Aus 1525 X 10 min -> quench in P50.
 
Robert Erickson said:
I had a chance to heat treat a few more coupons with the high temp normalization/triple thermal cycle protocol.
I did one coupon at 1525/quench in P50 and got 69,70,69!
The other at 1550/quench in P50 went back down to 64,63,62.
Thanks Willie71 Willie71 for the suggestion.

It looks like my protocol for this batch of W2 is now going to be:
2000 X 10 min air cool
1500 X 10 min air cool X 3
Aus 1525 X 10 min -> quench in P50.
Click to expand...

You could try 1535f too, to really dial it in. My experience with the older W2, is that going more than 10f, up or down from optimum is all you can get away with before losing performance. Your 1525f results look great!
 
I have gotten 1084 blades from customers that experience this same patchy hardness. This steel also came from NJSB. It was zones of softness that went completely through the blade. I talked to a few other people who also had similar issues with 1084. But this sucks with the W2 getting wonky results.
 
JTknives said:
I have gotten 1084 blades from customers that experience this same patchy hardness. This steel also came from NJSB. It was zones of softness that went completely through the blade. I talked to a few other people who also had similar issues with 1084. But this sucks with the W2 getting wonky results.
Click to expand...
Did you do a FE etch? Just wondering what it looked like. It should be a traceable flaw for the mill.
 
I don't have NJSB's latest W2 to test but suspect it has shallower hardening than previous w2, so P50 isn't cool fast enough to avoid the PN when aust at 1475F.

Wx is water hardening steel after all.

If you are willing to try 2 coupons: With your normalize & thermal cycles, do 1475F aust 10-12 minutes -> quench in brine for 1 second, then quickly quench in canola oil (avoid ruining p50 or mccmaster oil with brine). 2nd coupon brine quench for 1.5 second then canola. Looking for higher coupon aq hrc be in 67-69 range.

*edit: just ordered 4 strips of NJSB W2 0.094" thick.

Robert Erickson said:
I had a chance to heat treat a few more coupons with the high temp normalization/triple thermal cycle protocol.
I did one coupon at 1525/quench in P50 and got 69,70,69!
The other at 1550/quench in P50 went back down to 64,63,62.
Thanks Willie71 Willie71 for the suggestion.

It looks like my protocol for this batch of W2 is now going to be:
2000 X 10 min air cool
1500 X 10 min air cool X 3
Aus 1525 X 10 min -> quench in P50.
Click to expand...
 
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bluntcut said:
I don't have NJSB's latest W2 to test but suspect it has shallower hardening than previous w2, so P50 isn't cool fast enough to avoid the PN when aust at 1475F.

Wx is water hardening steel after all.

If you are willing to try 2 coupons: With your normalize & thermal cycles, do 1475F aust 10-12 minutes -> quench in brine for 1 second, then quickly quench in canola oil (avoid ruining p50 or mccmaster oil with brine). 2nd coupon brine quench for 1.5 second then canola. Looking for higher coupon aq hrc be in 67-69 range.

*edit: just ordered 4 strips of NJSB W2 0.094" thick.
Click to expand...

I might try brine but in reality I probably won't brine quench my knives because of the higher risk of breaking. It would be interesting though.
 
JTknives said:
I have gotten 1084 blades from customers that experience this same patchy hardness. This steel also came from NJSB. It was zones of softness that went completely through the blade. I talked to a few other people who also had similar issues with 1084. But this sucks with the W2 getting wonky results.
Click to expand...

Well that sucks, was about to order some 1084 for forging some hunters
 
Robert, have you been soaking your kiln before doing the heat treating tests? I'm wondering if the lack of hardness/consistency in the lower temps is because you're doing them first and the oven isn't really equalized at temperature yet. I would be interested to see what happens if you soak the kiln for an hour before putting the blades in for the lower temp austenitization tests.
 
Tenebr0s said:
Robert, have you been soaking your kiln before doing the heat treating tests? I'm wondering if the lack of hardness/consistency in the lower temps is because you're doing them first and the oven isn't really equalized at temperature yet. I would be interested to see what happens if you soak the kiln for an hour before putting the blades in for the lower temp austenitization tests.
Click to expand...

Good question sir :thumbsup:
I did the normalizing and thermal cycling of all coupons at the same time and without turning off the kiln let the coupons cool then individually tested the coupons at the different aus temps. The kiln would have been on for a good period of time at that point, probably more than an hour.
 
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