What’s your opinion on ‘homage watches?’

[DangerZone98]

There’s no ambiguity about counterfeits—items beings passed off as the real thing, i.e. a Chinese manufactured watch with Rolex on the dial powered by a cheap quartz movement. We don’t do that here.

Homages are not as cut and dried however. On one hand, you have tasteful homages like, say, the Glycine Sub vs the Rolex Submariner or Dan Henry watches with their chronographs. The gist here is that these watches clearly take design cues from other existing watches, but they nonetheless have their own identity so as not to be a blatant copy.

But what about the AliExpress brands that are almost a 1:1 copy of existing watches, only omitting the logo of the original watches? Depending on the seller, the specs of these homages sometimes rival the original—sapphire glass, solid link bracelets, excellent lume, etc. Is this kind of homage as ‘bad’ as owning a counterfeit or replica?

 

[Grasshopperglock]

I own several San Martin. The highest grade of China manufacturer watch. But none of them say Rolex on the dial.

The fly in the soup. You can't copyright the look of a watch. Every single watch produced today takes design cues from every other watch.

My Marathon watches are a homage of Chronosport. You might remember the watch. Magnum PI wore it, early in the show. The watch before the Superman Rolex his father gave him.

Then there's my Damasko. The started by making cases for Sinn. So who's the homage in that situation?


As for the one to one clones. Ones that say Rolex on the dial. You have to know what Chinese factory is making it. Then it's a process of them clearing you for a purchase. And they have experts in the area of getting Customs to clear the watch.

Those factories aren't on Aliexpress.

The clones they produce are the same ones you'll see on YouTube. Fooling watch experts. It's also low key advertising. The clone market has a serious following but it's not something we talk about in polite public.

 

[Triple_D]

Not for me, really. Basically, I'm a Rolex kind of guy, despite all of the other, very nice watches (Patek Philippe, Girard Perregaux, etc.) out there. They just aren't my thing. So homage watches are not even on my radar.

But at the same time, I don't care what watch anyone else wears. To each his own, and it's none of my business, anyway.

 

[Grasshopperglock]

It's either a hundred grand for a Richard Mille.

Or ~250 to $1000 for a homage. $1000-$1500 range and it's pretty much the same thing.

 

[bdmicarta]

The fly in the soup. You can't copyright the look of a watch. Every single watch produced today takes design cues from every other watch.

Plus even most reputable manufacturers have done it. A lot of companies have made watches with some similar design aspects of other watches.

Rolex has gained such popularity, and Rolex copies have gained such notoriety, that part of the homage market is tainted. If you buy a San Martin that looks like a Rolex but has a different name, how do you convince ordinary people that you aren't wearing a fake Rolex. I've owned a number of Rolex homages by companies like Steinhart and Invicta, but only a couple of them were in the black/stainless scheme that would be recognized as a Rolex. I had one with white dial, one with blue dial, things like that. Currently I own 2 Steinhart. They are a bit larger than the traditional Rolex and I like the additional size, they are made very well and have ETA movements. One is the Ocean Black meaning it is all black even the case and bracelet are DLC coated. Nobody would mistake it for a Rolex. My other one is stainless but it is styled like the Rolex GMT with Pepsi bezel so it is not quite as recognizable as a Rolex copy. Steinhart has some designs that deviate from Rolex styling and I have toyed with buying one of them since I like the brand and like the size but I don't want people to think I'm wearing a copy/fake. I've also owned various Fliegers which are somewhat homages of the original German watches, but the public doesn't know what these are so nobody is going to think you're wearing a fake. And last year I got a Chinese copy of the Omega Moonwatch, using a Seiko quartz movement. So that gives my answer to the question- I'm OK with a homage as long as it isn't something that the general public will react negatively to.

I've seen a Chinese copy of the Omega Aqua Terra and I've thought about buying one of those. I'm cheap and I would never be able to buy a real one, so if I like the styling and I can wear a homage without people ridiculing me I might do it. One of my favorite watch designs of all time is one of the older Seamasters (model 2254). If I could find a watch with similar design I would buy one of those. My Orient Kano is the closest I've come to that.

 

[Grasshopperglock]

Plus even most reputable manufacturers have done it. A lot of companies have made watches with some similar design aspects of other watches.

Rolex has gained such popularity, and Rolex copies have gained such notoriety, that part of the homage market is tainted. If you buy a San Martin that looks like a Rolex but has a different name, how do you convince ordinary people that you aren't wearing a fake Rolex. I've owned a number of Rolex homages by companies like Steinhart and Invicta, but only a couple of them were in the black/stainless scheme that would be recognized as a Rolex. I had one with white dial, one with blue dial, things like that. Currently I own 2 Steinhart. They are a bit larger than the traditional Rolex and I like the additional size, they are made very well and have ETA movements. One is the Ocean Black meaning it is all black even the case and bracelet are DLC coated. Nobody would mistake it for a Rolex. My other one is stainless but it is styled like the Rolex GMT with Pepsi bezel so it is not quite as recognizable as a Rolex copy. Steinhart has some designs that deviate from Rolex styling and I have toyed with buying one of them since I like the brand and like the size but I don't want people to think I'm wearing a copy/fake. I've also owned various Fliegers which are somewhat homages of the original German watches, but the public doesn't know what these are so nobody is going to think you're wearing a fake. And last year I got a Chinese copy of the Omega Moonwatch, using a Seiko quartz movement. So that gives my answer to the question- I'm OK with a homage as long as it isn't something that the general public will react negatively to.

I've seen a Chinese copy of the Omega Aqua Terra and I've thought about buying one of those. I'm cheap and I would never be able to buy a real one, so if I like the styling and I can wear a homage without people ridiculing me I might do it. One of my favorite watch designs of all time is one of the older Seamasters (model 2254). If I could find a watch with similar design I would buy one of those. My Orient Kano is the closest I've come to that.

Most people who look at Rolex. Having experienced the brand or not. Always have a tiny voice in their head that goes off, "Is it fake?".

People buying the things(Rolex). Will shed a drop of sweat, hoping like hell. The guy who authenticated it, was on the up and up.

If a person mistakes a San Martin as a Rolex. They're the same people giving their credit card number to the Nigerian prince. I can't help that. But if I held a San Martin up to your face. You'd know before I ever pulled it off my wrist.

Robbers too. No worry there either. Because only an idiot would try to steal a San Martin... Thinking it was a Rolex. San Martin has the look without the hassle or the grease ball price.

 

[jbmonkey]

it's a mixed bag to me. some I like. some of the doxa copies I like and own and wear.....but they are also an example of a complete ripoff too.

now if it's a model of watch, that's long gone and can't get....Id feel less rotten about buying or owning it.

I go back and forth on it.

 

[jux t]

I don’t like them. Just buy the real thing, or don’t. I’d feel better about wearing a decent, good looking Seiko than a watch pretending to be something it’s not. It would bother me every time I looked at it.

Edit: spelling mistake

 

[Grasshopperglock]

Then an AAAA grade clone would make you sick. Or maybe not.

I once had a, "fake" scare. Ran across a Benchmade 522 at a flea market. Still in the box and brand new. The guy selling it didn't have a bunch of knives. Mostly tools. And in the middle of the pile was this brand new Benchmade.

So I bought it for $100. Never thinking it was fake because if it was. It was perfect.

After some time at home. I used the knife to cut a small, green, tree branch. Maybe 1/4" thick. First cut for this knife. And the blade instantly fractured. A huge, gigantic, chip, broke off. Almost snapping the blade in two.

Well crap, how do I prove it's real or not?

I sent it to Benchmade themselves. They'll either keep or send it back.

They sent it back with a new blade. So either it was a good enough clone to fool Benchmade or it's the real deal.

Rolex is a CAD file. Robots make it. The same robots, owned by others, make the clone. With the clone being so ridiculously accurate. Accurate enough, a person could be wearing a clone all their life and never know the difference. Even after it's been serviced multiple times.

 

[DangerZone98]

I don’t like them. Just buy the real thing, or don’t. I’d feel better about wearing a decent, good looking Seiko than a watch pretending to be something it’s not. It would bother me every time I looked at it.

Edit: spelling mistake

The Steeldive Willard with super cool specs and at around the $100 range is tempting though, honestly. But you are correct, I really don’t need it. All my autos have been Seikos so far.

Onto the next knife then, lol.

 

[DangerZone98]

it's a mixed bag to me. some I like. some of the doxa copies I like and own and wear.....but they are also an example of a complete ripoff too.

now if it's a model of watch, that's long gone and can't get....Id feel less rotten about buying or owning it.

I go back and forth on it.

Your Citizens are awesome man.

What one and done automatic Citizen would you recommend if I may ask?

 

[jbmonkey]

Your Citizens are awesome man.

What one and done automatic Citizen would you recommend if I may ask?

thank you...I like the 9 series 905x and such movements best. they tend to run closer to accurate and just seem overall better than the 820x's do. currently the reissue challenge diver uses the 9051 movement. also the new gmt uses a 9 series movement think it's the 9054. not sure any others use it other than maybe some japan only ones....

citizen has a whole bunch of lines we dont see here in the states, where i am. I like the promaster lines mostly.

anyways if I could only keep one I'd be either the challenge diver/ fujitsubo reissue, or any of the diver ny004x. which have mineral crystal and are just cheaper but high value. or ny0012 or ny01xx lines. all use 8203 or 8204 movements and they run a long time with no servicing and keep okay time. all I own run a bit fast some pretty close to perfect. none slow. whereas my seikos tend to run super fast or super slow....but I got coupes that run pretty close too.....

 

[Triple_D]

Meh...Buy your Rolex from an authorized Rolex jeweler, and have it serviced at one of the Rolex service centers, and you will never have a problem.

Buy a Rolex at a flea market, and you just might get taken.

Trying to get a Rolex for a Timex price, is what gets people into trouble.

 

[DangerZone98]

thank you...I like the 9 series 905x and such movements best. they tend to run closer to accurate and just seem overall better than the 820x's do. currently the reissue challenge diver uses the 9051 movement. also the new gmt uses a 9 series movement think it's the 9054. not sure any others use it other than maybe some japan only ones....

citizen has a whole bunch of lines we dont see here in the states, where i am. I like the promaster lines mostly.

anyways if I could only keep one I'd be either the challenge diver/ fujitsubo reissue, or any of the diver ny004x. which have mineral crystal and are just cheaper but high value. or ny0012 or ny01xx lines. all use 8203 or 8204 movements and they run a long time with no servicing and keep okay time. all I own run a bit fast some pretty close to perfect. none slow. whereas my seikos tend to run super fast or super slow....but I got coupes that run pretty close too.....

Thanks man. I’m a Seiko guy but Citizen looks interesting too.

 

[jbmonkey]

Thanks man. I’m a Seiko guy but Citizen looks interesting too.

I like both brands...but when seiko killed off the skx line and went price crazy....citizen just made more sense to me...so I buy more of those than seikos anymore.

 

[jux t]

I’m not a very knowledgeable watch guy, so I’m here to learn. Can one of you tell me the benefits of buying a knockoff that’s higher priced than a decent watch of a lesser manufacturer?

Mostly, my watch experience comes from wearing the same one that I love everyday for years. I’ve had 2 watches. One was a Flightmaster my now wife bought me when we were 18, and another Flightmaster 2 years ago to replace it. Not out of need, just because the first one had scratches on the band and the face had a couple scratches from being raked against concrete.


The entire 13 years I wore the first one, it went through working construction (including many days of jackhammering with it on), army training, scuba diving, ocean swimming, and daily living. Almost never took it off. Showered/slept with it 24/7. Still do with the same with the new one.

They have never needed to be adjusted for time, as far as I can remember. The one I wore for 13 years needed a new battery 1 time. It coincidently ran out of battery within a week of getting the new one. Not bad at all. The only other service they’ve needed is resetting the stopwatch to point at 12 o’clock, which is an easy push button task.

So my question is, do the high end knockoffs keep time better, resist water better, resist scratches better, whatever metrics there are, than a good lower/middle tier watch like the Seiko I know and love? Or is it just for looks? I’ve had and sold a Rolex Datejust because I just didn’t like it.

 

[Triple_D]

There is nothing wrong with a Seiko, and I'd be proud to wear one. In fact, I did wear Seiko watches, before I could afford to step into the "luxury" watch market. Seiko is a fine watch.

 

[bdmicarta]

So my question is, do the high end knockoffs keep time better, resist water better, resist scratches better, whatever metrics there are, than a good lower/middle tier watch like the Seiko I know and love? Or is it just for looks? I’ve had and sold a Rolex Datejust because I just didn’t like it.

That depends on the price but to some extent the answer is yes. For instance I have owned a few Steinharts, they came with genuine Swiss ETA 2824 or 2892 (2893?) movements. The lower/middle tier Seiko would have had a 7s26 movement which is a good durable movement but doesn't offer very high accuracy. That movement has evolved into the current NH35 movement that maybe isn't any more accurate but has other advantages such as hacking and hand winding. San Martin and other companies that offer mid level knockoffs will typically use the Seiko NH35 movement, some of the lower priced ones use Citizen movements. Some of the knockoffs are made very well, hard to find problems with them unless you are pretty critical, but they won't be finished to the same standard as the Rolex. I'm repeating your use of the word knockoff, but my discussion is really regarding homages.

Now if you start talking about outright fakes the answer is likely no. The fakes have to look good enough to fool the average person and if they are selling a fake they are going to put the cheapest movement in it that they can find and probably cheap out on all the other parts and materials. I ended up with a fake SKX that I bought on ebay. I was looking for a cheap watch that I could do mods to, the listing said it was a broken SKX and I only wanted the case so I bought it. A friend of mine was doing a similar thing and I think he ended up with a fake but he still modded it and wore it. I have that watch now and the movement is no longer working.

 

[bdmicarta]

Rolex is a CAD file. Robots make it. The same robots, owned by others, make the clone. With the clone being so ridiculously accurate. Accurate enough, a person could be wearing a clone all their life and never know the difference. Even after it's been serviced multiple times.

Anybody with experience servicing Rolex watches will know as soon as they take the back off that it isn't a real Rolex. Other than that yes the average person wearing a Rolex would not know the difference. I think I've heard stories of people taking their Rolex in to have the battery changed, thinking it's a real Rolex.

 

[DangerZone98]

I’m not a very knowledgeable watch guy, so I’m here to learn. Can one of you tell me the benefits of buying a knockoff that’s higher priced than a decent watch of a lesser manufacturer?

Mostly, my watch experience comes from wearing the same one that I love everyday for years. I’ve had 2 watches. One was a Flightmaster my now wife bought me when we were 18, and another Flightmaster 2 years ago to replace it. Not out of need, just because the first one had scratches on the band and the face had a couple scratches from being raked against concrete.
View attachment 2350039

The entire 13 years I wore the first one, it went through working construction (including many days of jackhammering with it on), army training, scuba diving, ocean swimming, and daily living. Almost never took it off. Showered/slept with it 24/7. Still do with the same with the new one.

They have never needed to be adjusted for time, as far as I can remember. The one I wore for 13 years needed a new battery 1 time. It coincidently ran out of battery within a week of getting the new one. Not bad at all. The only other service they’ve needed is resetting the stopwatch to point at 12 o’clock, which is an easy push button task.

So my question is, do the high end knockoffs keep time better, resist water better, resist scratches better, whatever metrics there are, than a good lower/middle tier watch like the Seiko I know and love? Or is it just for looks? I’ve had and sold a Rolex Datejust because I just didn’t like it.

IMO, no major functional advantage other than if you really like said clone homage’s look. A decent watch from an entry but legit maker may also have the edge in warranty and customer service.

There’s also quartz vs. automatic. A $50 quartz Timex will always keep better time than an NH36 Chinese homage. The latter ‘might’ have better water resistance though, especially compared with 3 or 5 ATM WR Timex watches.

Beautiful Flightmaster by the way.