What was considered great knife steel years ago that is now considered cheap or not good?

tokerblue said:
Depends on the application.
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Not sure why people keep comparing these two steels, because they're practically polar opposites of one another. Magnacut is a very low carbide volume steel that was designed to be very tough at high hardness (i.e., a stainless 4v). M390 has almost 3x the carbide volume of magnacut, and was designed for high edge retention combined with excellent corrosion resistance and ease of sharpening. Although the predominantly chromium carbides it has are "softer" than the niobium and vanadium carbides in Magnacut, it's still going to pull ahead in edge retention through sheer carbide volume alone. What M390 is not going to allow you to do is run your knife at really high hardness, and support a super thin edge while still being reasonably resistant to chipping.
 
A good knife steel will still be a good knife steel no matter what other steel comes along. It doesn’t just turn stale or sour like food over time.

Now I’ve seen some knife brands that have been better that have turned stale and soured. I don’t know if it is their heat treatment and tempering or just what but they aren’t what they used to be.

I’ve seen some steels that were considered to be better than average from one maker but when another maker uses it they turn into junk. So it can depend on different variables and who is using the steel in manufacturing the blade.

Also one steel can be better in a particular use where in another type of use a different steel would be more suitable and perform better. So application can be the difference.
 
i dont know but i remember when this knife was considered high end for a folder
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nattynarwhal said:
Not sure why people keep comparing these two steels, because they're practically polar opposites of one another. Magnacut is a very low carbide volume steel that was designed to be very tough at high hardness (i.e., a stainless 4v). M390 has almost 3x the carbide volume of magnacut, and was designed for high edge retention combined with excellent corrosion resistance and ease of sharpening. Although the predominantly chromium carbides it has are "softer" than the niobium and vanadium carbides in Magnacut, it's still going to pull ahead in edge retention through sheer carbide volume alone. What M390 is not going to allow you to do is run your knife at really high hardness, and support a super thin edge while still being reasonably resistant to chipping.
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I think it is from a video interview with Larrin at some knife show. They naturally discussed Magnacut, where he singles out M390 and says something like "M390 is from the 80's and it shows". The opposite of old is obviously something that is new and "modern" such as MC.

There was a thread about this exact topic recently.
 
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In the space of my time on BF, I would say D2. When I started it seemed like a niche steel, custom/semi-custom, and now is often a marker of a poor (not cheap, but poor) blade. But I don't think it's for the reasons that many other steels fall out of favor. D2 went from a specialist steel to "well maybe its D2, maybe its recycled soup cans" whereas few other steels have that same problem. I don't see many people wondering about the validity of their S30v, they might wonder if a maker has a good rep with their steel, but the range of say 1095 is well known, so you know that an ESEE is a touch softer than what a custom maker can push out of the same material, and take that into consideration. Apart from some well known fiascos with maybe unmarked A2, which apart from premium price and performance expectation was actually not horrific, in that the A2 would have been fine if it was sold as such. Steels fall out of favor, but I don't see other steels getting stamped on mystery metal as much as D2, though that may well change in the future. This is different than total fakes where the original design's steel is stamped on the blade, I'm talking uber-budget "production" stuff from rebrand sellers.
 
Bunker Hill Blades said:
440C is really the only steel I’m thinking of.
(I wonder how long it will be before Magnacut isn’t considered a premium steel anymore?)
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Considered by whom? Don’t buy the marketing hype, buy the knife. Steel is steel, and whatever benefits a particular alloy may offer will come at the cost of compromises elsewhere. It is not better it is just different. The trick is to find a knife and steel that works for you and how you like to use it.

The underlying marketing message is usually the same; buy our latest formulation of steel and you need not worry about sharpening the knife for a longer period of time. It is always aimed at novice buyers who are anxious about sharpening their knives. Get comfortable in maintaining your knife and you need no longer concern yourself with the latest hype, unless you are simply a collector intent of buying examples of the same knife in all of its formulations - which again is how a maker persuades you to buy 20 copies of the same item.

n2s
 
While neither steel nor a great to zero item - - Talonite does fit the spirit of that theme.
The recent thread about Rob Simmonich made me think of Talonite.

Talonite pretty much died when Rob and Dr. Walt Welch did.

Many were predicting that eventually, people would abandon steel in favor of it.
20 years ago, for a number of years, it was all the rage.
Now you seldom hear about it.
 
I think the quality of the heath-treat is more important then the steel itself. That having said, if I should need a knife for survival and chopping woo and other hard use, my choice would be 3V.
For all other applications I don't care so much. Each steel has its advantages and disadvantages. For moderate use, you won't mention much difference between the various steels.
 
Ad58 said:
I think the quality of the heath-treat is more important then the steel itself. That having said, if I should need a knife for survival and chopping woo and other hard use, my choice would be 3V.
For all other applications I don't care so much. Each steel has its advantages and disadvantages. For moderate use, you won't mention much difference between the various steels.
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I think the saying goes “geometry cuts, and the heat treat and steel type determine how long”. I think you’re exactly correct though.

I’d much rather have a custom in 52100 that’s gone through a custom heat treat allowing crazy thin edges and high hardness, than a “fancy” production knife with PM steel. This despite 52100 being considered a “simple” steel. It’s all about the heat treat.
 
I am not a metallurgist or steel nerd. I have made a very few knives back in the 1980s when working in the oil industry out in the field, mostly from discarded leaf springs. At that time, the IT steel for custom knife makers was Crucible 154CM. It was then seen as a sophisticated alloy needing a complex heat treatment that required several increasing levels of heat soak followed by a subzero quench in dry nitrogen (or something like that).

Today this steel rates well behind many other newer alloys in workability and final blade characteristics.
 
If a person has the resources and energy to chase after the newest steel flavour of the month, then all the more power to them and I wish them well. However I find it rather comical that steels that were considered "cutting edge":p a few years ago, now seem rather blasé and maybe even frowned upon. There are people who hate steels like s30v that will turn their noses up on a real nice knife just because the steel is now considered "inferior" and dare I say it - junk.

I have little interest in blade steels as I have far too many knives of different steels that I will never stress them to the limit that a "super steel" or even a "crappy" steel would ever see. I am quite satisfied to trust the knife designer/manufacturer to use whatever steel they happen to like using. Buck's 420HC, VC's or Case's 420HC?, Grohmann's 1.4110?, Benchmade's/Spyderco's s30v, etc. all the same to me for all the string-rope-letters-cardboard I tackle the 2 or 3 times a day I actually use a knife.😁
 
kobold said:
I think it is from a video interview with Larrin at some knife show. They naturally discussed Magnacut, where he singles out M390 and says something like "M390 is from the 80's and it shows". The opposite of old is obviously something that is new and "modern" such as MC.

There was a thread about this exact topic recently.
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With all due respect to Larrin, but we can’t call him unbiased; would be interesting to know how much the Magnacut patent license fees run ... I’m only a few years in this hobby, but very well remember when M390 / 20CV started showing up in folders (-5 years ago ?). Funny how some people think it’s boring today, in part due to its success and wide distribution.

Also interesting personally how I am attracted to some quite “old” steels these days (AEB-L, A8 mod., A2, M4, etc.), that still have some outstanding properties - even when compared to Magnacut.

Consider this: say you have $500 to spend on a Busse in Infi vs. a Becker in Magnacut, same size, price and function. Will you snub the Busse ?

I love this hobby, but the product marketing aspect of it is certainly not the most attractive aspect :)

Roland.
 
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