Why does Case get a pass on "surgical steel?"

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19-3ben said:
Nope. It's in their literature if you look, and on websites that market their knives.
As an example, here it is in a copy & paste from the Q&A on the Case website
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I stand corrected. I have never been that fond of the tru-sharp label, and I really dislike the term surgical stainless. That puts me in an interesting position since I own, use, and like several Case knives. I don't give them a pass for using the terms tru-sharp or surgical stainless.

However, they make a very good quality working knife in the U.S. They perform well and have been my preferred brand of traditional knives for many years, and I have or have owned traditional knives from all of the major companies.
 
Screwdriver said:
If people start crying that Case does not use steels like CPM-20CV, S35VN etc, then I am quitting Bladeforums and start collecting pewter hand painted My Little Pony figures.
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If your not collecting s35v and m390 my little pony figures, you're doing it wrong ;)


For the OP, I believe a lot has to do with the fact that case is an established, respected company, and their "surgical stainless", also known as tru-sharp, has been identified by composition, so we know it is at least a respectable steel.

The main problem with the "surgical steel" label, especially from less reputable companies, is that it has been used far to often to cover less then adequate knife steels, most often 420j series, which only has .15% carbon, with upwards to .36 in j1... even Chinese 3cr13 has a minimal threshold of .26%. In knife blade terms, it's like pot metal.
420hc has .46%, which greatly improves edge stability, 440a and 12c27 or 14c28 has over .60%, and for many knife enthusiasts such as myself, those are considered amongst the lowest grade stainlesses that make adequate knife blades due to their edge holding. (Carbon content is the main ingredient in steel that allows it to harden and hold an edge).

So if a company uses the generic "surgical stainless" label, but has no transparency as to the composition of their steels make-up, we assume they are using surgical grade 420j2, which is used in surgical situations, it has great corrosion resistance (makes a great bed pan ;) ), but is very soft and won't hold an edge well.
The only knives 420j really excel at making is salt water dives knives, because of its corrosion resistance properties.

That is why Case gets a bit of a pass on this one.
 
I can't say for sure, but I'm inclined to believe that Case has used the expression for a long time. Probably before it would be considered tacky to use the label "surgical stainless steel". I think the tru sharp and the cv both work fine and I'll continue to use them no matter what they're called.
 
OP, Case does not get a pass in my neck of the woods. Their carbon steel knives are the only models considered. Even their hollow grinds are getting old. Boker has flat grinds which get most attention lately. Carbon for the Bokers as well.
 
popedandy said:
I have never been that fond of the tru-sharp label, and I really dislike the term surgical stainless. That puts me in an interesting position since I own, use, and like several Case knives. I don't give them a pass for using the terms tru-sharp or surgical stainless.

However, they make a very good quality working knife in the U.S. They perform well and have been my preferred brand of traditional knives for many years, and I have or have owned traditional knives from all of the major companies.
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I don't care for those terms either, but I think Case has been using them for a long time. Other manufacturers use the surgical stainless label to give them flexibility in terms of steel being used for their knives (I think). I refer to some of the European companies that use the term and you seldom can get any information on what the steel IS actually.

A Case Barlow was the very first "good knife" that I owned as a kid. I was in heaven when I bought that knife. It was a huge expense to me on a tiny allowance from my parents at the time. It took literally 6 months to save up for the knife.

When I was referring to Rough Rider knives, I was pretty much thinking in terms of traditional slip joints, not fixed blades. Fixed blades from these kinds of manufacturers are not on my radar at all. I think you can order Rough Rider slip joints from the retailer that makes them (not mentioned because they are not a BF dealer). What makes them better than the similar priced Frost stuff? I was told that they actually ship the steel from the US to China for them to use in the manufacturing process versus what Frost does. Also, I have seldom handled a Frost slippie that had much of a "snap" when I close the blade. That is one of the ways I judge a slippie.
 
19-3ben said:
Huh? I'm not complaining at all. I'm not even disparaging the steel being used. Only asking about the marketing terminology used to describe the steel. nobody is blaming anyone for anything here. Not sure where you're getting that.
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When you ask why Case gets a "pass" on using "surgical" steel, you're clearly disparaging Case and TruSharp and by inference the buyers of Case's knives.
 
19-3ben said:
I was going to post this in "traditional" but figured i might get a biased view there, and would rather get a representative sampling of opinions.

We all crap all over every company that advertises that they use "surgical steel."
Yet Case, which is highly regarded touts their Tru-Sharp Surgical Steel, and we all go along with it. Do they get some kind of special dispensation? Or do people hate on Case also and I'm just unaware of it?

Assuming they do get a pass... why? Is case just too much of a sacred cow to butcher?

Do we actually know kind of steel the "Tru-Sharp Surgical Steel" is?
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Case's steel technology is old, true. But their market isn't knife nuts. It's as wide as it possibly can be. Non knife nuts don't take the same pride/anguish in sharpening steel as we do, so it makes sense to have the easiest possible time in maintaining a useable edge.

The other piece that makes Case blades perform is the grind - they're super thin blade stock and (mostly) hollow, (sometimes) flat ground thin enough that even when that edge gets a little dull, they still cut pretty well. I used a Tru-Sharp Sodbuster Jr. to clean ivy off of the side of a house and screens. After an hour and a half of work, it was still cutting. Yes, it took a lot more effort to cut by that time, but "more effort" is relative, and the point is that it was still cutting.

Buck (also Queen, CSC, GEC, and other traditional makers) harden their 420HC a couple points higher than Tru-Sharp, and those perform usually about like 1095.

Those other traditional manufacturers don't get anywhere close to the pricepoint of a Case knife, except maybe for Buck, but Buck isn't regarded the same way. They're kind of like a traditional with a modern twist. In fact, no one in the traditional world gets close, except for Colt and Rough Rider type brands, and those all come from China. What more do you want from a $20-$40 USA made slip-joint?

I have a question... Why get so angry, so far as to invest energy in "hating" a brand like Case? Hate is really, really intense. Is your quality of life made lower beyond your control because Case uses Tru-Sharp?
 
19-3ben said:
I work in an office/professional environment. While we're pretty laid back and I can usually get away with a PM2 or similar clipped to my pocket, there are times I have to put on the monkey suit. For lighter wear like that, i was thinking a Case Slimline Trapper, or Buck 302 might be a good fit, being lighter and slimmer than the multiple-blade knives.

How is the Case jigged synthetic bone? Does it actually have the look/feel of the real deal? Or is it obviously cheesy plastic?
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Check out Case knives with "bone stag" scales. It's cattle bone jigged to look like stag. Case doesn't use it all the time, but right now they're making a bunch of patterns with those scales.

I have about six Case knives in bone stag and they all look great.

If you're looking for an attractive , slim knife , check out the Russlock in bone stag.
 
I had forgotten until just now that some of the other U.S. manufacturers used to do something similar. Queen used to call their stainless Queen steel and Schrade had a name for theirs - Schrade+ or something like that. FWIW
 
popedandy said:
I had forgotten until just now that some of the other U.S. manufacturers used to do something similar. Queen used to call their stainless Queen steel and Schrade had a name for theirs - Schrade+ or something like that. FWIW
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That's the beauty part of "proprietary steels." They can be anything and they don't have to be the same thing from batch to batch. CS and, what did they have...SK5 or something like that that?
 
Practically speaking what difference does the steel composition really make if the knife performs in a fashion which suits the user, especially when it relates to a relatively light-duty pocket knife?
 
Stop being practical.... :D Blade Forums folks want to know what steel it is? But I agree with you which is why I use a SAK as my primary EDC.
 
It's good to know exactly what steel it is.
 
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traumkommode said:
Case's steel technology is old, true. But their market isn't knife nuts. It's as wide as it possibly can be. Non knife nuts don't take the same pride/anguish in sharpening steel as we do, so it makes sense to have the easiest possible time in maintaining a useable edge.

The other piece that makes Case blades perform is the grind - they're super thin blade stock and (mostly) hollow, (sometimes) flat ground thin enough that even when that edge gets a little dull, they still cut pretty well. I used a Tru-Sharp Sodbuster Jr. to clean ivy off of the side of a house and screens. After an hour and a half of work, it was still cutting. Yes, it took a lot more effort to cut by that time, but "more effort" is relative, and the point is that it was still cutting.

Buck (also Queen, CSC, GEC, and other traditional makers) harden their 420HC a couple points higher than Tru-Sharp, and those perform usually about like 1095.

Those other traditional manufacturers don't get anywhere close to the pricepoint of a Case knife, except maybe for Buck, but Buck isn't regarded the same way. They're kind of like a traditional with a modern twist. In fact, no one in the traditional world gets close, except for Colt and Rough Rider type brands, and those all come from China. What more do you want from a $20-$40 USA made slip-joint?

I have a question... Why get so angry, so far as to invest energy in "hating" a brand like Case? Hate is really, really intense. Is your quality of life made lower beyond your control because Case uses Tru-Sharp?
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OK. I'm going to say this one more time, for those who despite being pretty clear in my OP and then following up with further clarification, are still having a hard time with this.

I do NOT hate Case. I never said I did. I did ask "Or do people hate on Case also and I'm just unaware of it?" In other words, do people denigrate Case knives, and I just don't know. Obviously if I am asking about if someone else insults the brand, I am not saying that I do so. Either way, "hating on" something is very different from hating it.

My quality of life has been 100% unaffected by Case's choice in steel because I have never owned a case knife. Even if I did, my issue was NEVER with Case's choice of steel. I never questioned if they used good steel, why they picked the steel they did, if they should use "better" steel, if their carbon steel was in some way superior to their stainless, etc... that just never happened. The quality of their steel, and the reasons behind their steel selection were never a part of the discussion. The only thing I did with my OP was ask about why the community treats Case's marketing language differently than that of other companies. It seemed to be a double standard.
That question was asked, and has now been answered clearly several times. We're good.
 
Are we really debating marketing terms?

Does case make a good knife? Sure.

Do they use the best steel? Probably not for steel snobs. Good enough for most.
 
JD Bear said:
I think the tru sharp and the cv both work fine and I'll continue to use them no matter what they're called.
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I have the same thoughts about Case Knives.

At present I own between 50 - 60 case slip joints. All of them have met my expectation for quality, fit & finish except for one. And after contacting Case, they agreed the knife I sent back to them had QC issues and should have never left the factory. Case sent me a new replacement knife with no problems and tossed in a couple perks for my troubles.
 
Case is a good company. They make knives for the masses or at least the masses who are willing to pay for one.
 
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