Work Sharp (belt grinder) Knife Sharpener

Noctis3880 said:
The Worksharp does have 2 plastic wheels yes, but those are high friction and will rotate rather than be abraded. The top wheel however is made of metal. The wheel will turn when making contact with the softer cloth backing, but on the abrasive itself I suspect the abrasive will simply slide over it because of how much harder it is and wear down the wheel. You can ask Kyle from Worksharp, but I suspect his answer will be the same. It's like what happens to a tire if you drive without the rubber.
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You could be right. I just don't really know for sure. Maybe Kyel or some one will try it and report back, and let us know if there is any wear. Probably the best thing would be if someone offered a cloth or leather belt in this size but as for now I don't think anything is available. It does seem that loading one of the worn high grit belts with compound does work so maybe that is the best answer to polish edges for now. The one thing that really did take me a long time to realize was how much grit size does make a difference with powered belts compared to hand sharpening. With ajusting pressure wile hand honing I can get a finer,
more polished edge than with the same grit as a moving belt. Pressure seems to ajust the angle more than anything else with belts. As I like very low angle edges I really need to keep a light touch with my belt sharpening.
 
On the subject of leather belts to fit the WS, I noticed on the SurgiSharp website they mention that, "We also custom build belts to your specifications": http://www.surgisharp.com/index_files/Page392.htm Food for thought, especially if WS might be convinced to do an order in enough volume to make the cost reasonable, and then offer them as another "optional" belt on their website.

Andrew
 
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UnknownVT said:
if anyone who feels they are not getting a consistent edge with the WSKTS - then it may well be worthwhile using something like a SharpMaker or V-hone fine crock sticks to set the actual final edge - as most of the benefits of the convex edge is the actual transition angle/convex profile (but the actual final edge does still have to be consistent to be really sharp) - so V-hones will do that, as a very light finishing touch
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Thought I'd bring this up again -
I only just noticed Sticky Thread: Microbevels at the top of this forum section.

There may be a very good reason to put a finishing micro-bevel on a Work Sharp sharpened knife -
if:

1) not confident of getting consistent results,
2) wanting a shallow/acute transition angle - but have doubts of the steel being able to support such a shallow/acute angle
3) simple light touching up a blade that doesn't really need further metal removal.

Of course if one's primary aim is to be able to have the blade as "sharp" as possible to be able to cut free hanging hair, or even free hanging tissue paper - a more obtuse micro-bevel probably is not the way.

However if the primary purpose is to have a knife that is scary sharp in cutting through things then the convex edge is probably the best to have, and a light micro-bevel does not detract from that.

In fact taking a silly example of a wire-edge (which is obviously not desirable) - but initially a wire-edge will seem really sharp - that is until that wire-edge is damaged broken/knocked-off then the blade is no longer sharp -
this can kind of be extended to a blade with too shallow/acute angle which the steel may not be able to support - yes the blade will do spectacular things on shallow cuts like shave tests - but just will not last because either the edge gets chipped, damage or deformed when cutting more normal/mundane everyday things -
putting on a micro-bevel may seem self-defeating going from a "sharp" shallow/acute angle to a more obtuse one - but it helps prevent early damage to the final cutting edge while retaining all the benefits of a convex edge profile which helps cutting through things, and not just the shallow cutting as in shave type tests.

My experience has shown that it's not necessarily just the final edge angle (obviously within reason), when cutting through things like corrugated cardboard -
it's the transition angle profile that seems to make the greater difference - I have knives that have very shallow/acute angled V profiles, yet almost any of my convex edges will out cut those when cutting through things like corrugated cardboard - with or without a final micro-bevel - and for years I had been doing convex edges manually freehand, and I got better sharpness and consistency by finishing off with a few light strokes on a fine ceramic V-hone - ie: a micro-bevel (DoH!)
and there was very little apparent difference between having and not having a micro-bevel when cutting through things - in fact I got better results with a micro-bevel - however that probably may have more to do with consistency.

Now with practice one can get very good consistency with the Work Sharp -
and having just advocated the micro-bevel -
I have not done that with any of the knives I've used the Work Sharp on -
for me it probably is psychologically using the guide -
so I can see that I am maintaining a consistent angle -
also the final edge angle is probably a little more obtuse than the main convex profile angle anyway due to nature of the convex -
so the need for a micro-bevel is not there, when I feel pretty confident of maintaining a consistent angle using the Work Sharp.

- and that may be one of the reasons I have not pursued the current "hot" interest in getting in-between belts - because I seem to be consistently getting better results with the WSKTS than almost anything I have done manually freehand - and I thought I was already pretty good, because both Ken Onion and Kyle Crawford at the Blade Show 2011 said my knives were sharp BEFORE Kyle demonstrated the WSKTS on them.

Thoughts?

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
AFAustin said:
See my post a couple above. I've sent an inquiry to SurgiSharp.

Andrew
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I doubt it would be offered. And if it was, the price would probably be high enough that it would simply be easier to use a worn out 6000 belt, or wear out a new one. Is there any particular reason why this method isn't appealing or practical?
 
Noctis3880 said:
I doubt it would be offered. And if it was, the price would probably be high enough that it would simply be easier to use a worn out 6000 belt, or wear out a new one. Is there any particular reason why this method isn't appealing or practical?
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Its just hard to beat a loaded leather belt for that last little edge refinement. Its probably just personal preference, but if there wasnt a difference between a leather stropped edge and an extremely high grit polished edge, then why does anyone strop at all?
 
As to the leather belts, it may well be a long shot, but no harm in asking. As for price, that is also a likely issue, and I'm much too cheap to pay a big premium. But, again, it's worth finding out. And who's to say---maybe Kyle and WS would be interested in ordering a batch to sell on their website with the other "supplemental" belts?

As for effectiveness, I'm still learning how to get the best final edge with the WS. The worn out 6000 belt + polish is a great idea, and I've had some decent results, but am still interested in experimenting. I love my leather hones, and would really enjoy trying out a leather WS belt.

I'll post here when I get an answer from SurgiSharp.

Andrew
 
gunfixrjoe said:
Its just hard to beat a loaded leather belt for that last little edge refinement. Its probably just personal preference, but if there wasnt a difference between a leather stropped edge and an extremely high grit polished edge, then why does anyone strop at all?
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That wasn't my point really. I'm just asking, what would be the difference between a leather belt and the 6000 belt in which the grit is forcibly stripped off, leaving nothing but the cloth?

I suppose I could understand if you use the leather belt bare, as there would be some fine grit silicates that could hone an edge, but I feel discussing between leather and cloth is a moot point if they are both loaded with abrasives.

I suppose Micro-Surface might be willing to sell just the bare cloths themselves if one asked at a good price around 50 cents per belt, though the flat rate of $12.50 for shipping costs would limit that to a group buy only.
 
Noctis,

I haven't owned or used a belt sander, so this may be an elementary question. Guys who do use belt sanders for knife sharpening commonly finish with a leather belt and compound. Is that because leather belts in 1x30 or 1x42 sizes are readily available, whereas sanding down a cloth belt in those sizes would be a lot of work? The WS situation would be the reverse, I suppose.

All that said, there is something about leather + compound that works magic. Is there no possible physical benefit to it as opposed to a bare cloth belt + compound?

Andrew
 
I suspect it could hold compound easier and longer, plus I'm a little at a loss on how one goes about cleaning the bare cloth. With leather one could use really fine sandpaper to wear away the top layer. With the cloth belt I would risk tearing the belt in two. Plus the abrasive belt cleaner block I bought would likely leave a gummy residue on the cloth belt. A bit of a dilemma since my belt looks pitch black and rather shiny, though it still seems to polish really well with a fresh layer of Mag Polish.
 
I spoke today with the good folks at SurgiSharp as well as WorkSharp. They are going to discuss the possibility of a leather belt for the WS. The problem, as I understand it, is the heat and expansion with a leather belt, as applied to the design and small size of the WS. Stay tuned....

Andrew
 
Thanks Andrew. I am glad that you have taken the initiative to get the ball rolling on this. I can hardly wait to hear a positive response on the use and manufacture of these leather belts.
Again, thank you,

Romo
 
RoMo, you're welcome. In the meantime, I should mention that the engineer who designed the WSKTS confirms that Noctis' suggestion of a worn or sanded 6000 belt with any type of rouge or polish is a good finishing step.

Another thing he mentioned is that he uses the WSKTS with and without the guides. He likes the 40 degree "kitchen" guide for curved blades, like skinners, because of the support it gives as you pull through the curve. He will use the open ("outdoor") guides, but much like Vincent does---as a visual guide but without really touching the blade to it---"levitating" the knife through it.

As to the guides, another important thing he pointed out is that placing the knife all the way down into the guide (i.e., deeply) changes the sharpening angle quite a bit---to a more obtuse angle. To maintain a shallower angle, the blade needs to ride higher, pressing into the belt less.

Andrew
 
AFAustin said:
the engineer who designed the WSKTS
...
He will use the open ("outdoor") guides, but much like Vincent does---as a visual guide but without really touching the blade to it---"levitating" the knife through it.

As to the guides, another important thing he pointed out is that placing the knife all the way down into the guide (i.e., deeply) changes the sharpening angle quite a bit---to a more obtuse angle. To maintain a shallower angle, the blade needs to ride higher, pressing into the belt less.
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Thank you Andrew for that information and confirmation.

Did he explain the reason why pushing the blade deep into the guide makes the angles more obtuse?

I believe it's the same as applying more pressure - that flexes the belt more so that it "wraps" itself more around the edge - making it more convex - so the end result is the actual edge angle is more obtuse.

This may actually sound like a good thing - unfortunately it doesn't work for me - because I don't think I can maintain the same consistent pressure - so the end result for me would be grinding more and getting a less consistent result -
I have found a light consistent touch is better as it that lessens the possibility of grabbing by the belt -
so less chance of things going wrong -
and the end result is that I still get a good consistent convex edge.

Like I said using the outdoors open guide as a visual guide works for me as I can see I am being consistent (or deviating from that) - I am envious (in the nicest possible meaning) of people who can use the belts freehand - as I do not have that confidence yet (perhaps) -

My results speak for themselves for me - since using the WSKTS
(with only the 2 finer supplied belts, the coarse belt is only to reprofile)
- I have not messed up any blade -
and other than not honing enough and having to repeat more than I expected -
all my blades are very satisfactory -
and much to my own chagrin better than any result I have from (years of) manual freehand convex sharpening -
and achieved with insultingly little effort.

I don't think I can say much better than what I had said in my review at the beginning of this thread:
I think I have just been made totally redundant in sharpening -
and that's a good thing - for me.

Impressed - isn't really enough of praise for this thing....
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--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
Maybe it is my technique, but the WS seems to grind the tips off my practice knives. Is there a way to prevent this?
 
is there 40 degree outdoor knife guide fit wider blades than the 40 degree kitchen knife guide..

whats the difference?
 
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