Work Sharp (belt grinder) Knife Sharpener

AFAustin said:
As a finishing step, I have found that some of my knives benefit from a few strokes on a leather hone with green compound, or even a few strokes on the Sharpmaker with Ultrafine stones.
Also, I do better getting a great final edge on some knives than on others, and haven't yet figured out all the reasons why.
Click to expand...

Andrew - could these two paragraphs possibly be related?

Are you getting better consistency with the edges that you finish on your SharpMaker?

Please take a look at the EDIT to ADD part in my post #158 earlier.

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
Vincent,

I haven't been very scientific in comparing results and techniques I've used from knife to knife, so I have no solid conclusions as to finishing with the Sharpmaker vs. other methods---still experimenting!

As to your post#158 edit, I do believe we're really addressing the same thing---a shallower back bevel (or, "thinning behind the edge") followed by a more obtuse micro-bevel on the edge.

Andrew
 
AFAustin said:
As to your post#158 edit, I do believe we're really addressing the same thing---a shallower back bevel (or, "thinning behind the edge") followed by a more obtuse micro-bevel on the edge.
Click to expand...
Andrew,

That is exactly why I asked (even earlier too in post #114) -
if anyone who feels they are not getting a consistent edge with the WSKTS - then it may well be worthwhile using something like a SharpMaker or V-hone fine crock sticks to set the actual final edge - as most of the benefits of the convex edge is the actual transition angle/convex profile (but the actual final edge does still have to be consistent to be really sharp) - so V-hones will do that, as a very light finishing touch, just as you hinted in Post #113, and why I asked basically this same question in that post #114

[there is some method to this madness]

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
Vincent,

I think your point is well taken. Of note is the fact that Work Sharp's little "touch up" sharpener for the WSKTS is itself a ceramic rod: http://www.worksharptools.com/index...tegory_id=98&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=146

I have been working on a "finishing" belt, as several of the WS users have suggested. I followed Noctis's idea and sanded off a used 6000 belt and applied a little Mother's Mag. My only issue with was that the MM seemed to dry to something of a crumbly texture and flake a lot. I later cleaned off the MM and applied a very thin coat of Flitz instead. It seems to work a little better (or maybe I just used a thinner coat). In any event, a few light passes on this seems to be a pretty good "final step" on a couple of knives I've tried it on.

Andrew
 
i have recently ordered one really excited!! great information on this thread!! i was wandering what steps to take to get a mirror edge.. and what steps in belts to use.. i assume u need to use bye some micro mesh belts.. which ones? i am totally new to belt grits and belt sanders entirely.. any help would be much appreciated!!
 
Definitely get the in between belts, they will help with mirror polishing - a good leather strop will improve the polish that much more.

I can tell you guys one thing, after a good 4 days of sharpening any knife i can get my hands on, i've realized that i was holding the edge at too much angle, on all knife types (when i was sharpening without the guides)

I would put too much pressure on the belt with the knife

I would not have adequate light

-------------------------------------------------------

I've improved a lot since then and can sharpen a knife faster and better with a lot more control, after just 4 days and about 15 knives, from butter knives to 5160 customs

It's easy to understand why i was holding at too much angle, i didn't realize that not only is my knife blade angled, but the belt itself is also angled AWAY from the blade, it's easy to think you barely have enough angle from belt to edge, but when you look from the profile and notice that not only your knife is angled but the belt is also, only then you realize why it takes so long to sharpen an edge and why I couldn't be consistent.

Putting the blade closer to the belt, putting less pressure on the belt improved the sharpening time and with much better results.
Also, standing up with blade in hand, Work Sharp on an elevated sturdy surface will also improve your learning time. Sitting down tends to leave your elbows resting on your knees, moving side to side is harder and with less control when your elbows are glued to your knees, not easy to do smoothly. Much easier to accomplish while standing.

I think the hardest thing is learning what to do when you get close to the tip of the knife. Only after you grind off the tips on a few kitchen knives will you know what needs to be done as it is hard to explain otherwise.

I think a good overall way to start would be: easy consistent moves, not a lot of pressure on the belt, let the belt do the work (that's where the in - between belts come in handy as you're not trying to put an edge on the knife with the 6000 belt) and free up your arms when holding the knife, don't rest them on anything. I think starting off like that will shorten the learning period. Also, borrow lots of knives from family and neighbors, only those cheap Ginsu knives, don't ruin the tips of their Henckels set
 
stinkyspice said:
i have recently ordered one really excited!! great information on this thread!! i was wandering what steps to take to get a mirror edge.. and what steps in belts to use.. i assume u need to use bye some micro mesh belts.. which ones? i am totally new to belt grits and belt sanders entirely.. any help would be much appreciated!!
Click to expand...

Worksharp sells 400-600-1800 belts also

the 400 will take off a lot of metal still, so the 220 should only be used if you got a badly messed up blade

for most dull blades, start with the 600 and see what you get before going lower. You can always take off more, but you won't be able to add metal once it's removed

i've gradually gone from 400-600-1800-6000 and still didn't get a mirror edge, but it was close...

stropped it for 30 minutes after and this is the closest i can get to a mirror edge on my stuff

037-XL.jpg


015-XL.jpg


016-XL.jpg


005-XL.jpg
 
stinkyspice said:
i have recently ordered one really excited!! great information on this thread!! i was wandering what steps to take to get a mirror edge.. and what steps in belts to use.. i assume u need to use bye some micro mesh belts.. which ones? i am totally new to belt grits and belt sanders entirely.. any help would be much appreciated!!
Click to expand...

As for "in between" belts, how many you get depends on how much time and work you want to put into getting a very refined edge. My feeling at this point is that you could do a great job with 2-3 additional belts. You could just get the P400 or P600 (or both) and the 1800 from WorkSharp: http://www.worksharptools.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=116

Or, from Micro-Mesh, maybe the 180MX, 240MX, and 360MX: http://micro-surface.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=273_197&products_id=91 Your cost here is the shipping, so I'd get several of each while you're at it.

And be sure to check out their Grit Conversion Chart, which is very helpful: http://micro-surface.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=16

Andrew

P.S.: Just saw robino's pics, and I'd say he did a heckuva good job just using the full line of WS belts.
 
robino said:
Worksharp sells 400-600-1800 belts also

the 400 will take off a lot of metal still, so the 220 should only be used if you got a badly messed up blade

for most dull blades, start with the 600 and see what you get before going lower. You can always take off more, but you won't be able to add metal once it's removed

i've gradually gone from 400-600-1800-6000 and still didn't get a mirror edge, but it was close...

stropped it for 30 minutes after and this is the closest i can get to a mirror edge on my stuff
Click to expand...
I'd say it looks like the jump in grits was a bit much, especially from the P600 to the 1800. If I read the chart right, it would be going from 40 microns to 15 microns, as opposed to 1800 to 6000, which would be 15 microns to 4 microns. Though the edge would still be a bit cloudy considering the grit size of the 6000 belt.

I would strongly recommend giving the Mother's Mag Polish a try.

AFAustin said:
Vincent,

I think your point is well taken. Of note is the fact that Work Sharp's little "touch up" sharpener for the WSKTS is itself a ceramic rod: http://www.worksharptools.com/index...tegory_id=98&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=146

I have been working on a "finishing" belt, as several of the WS users have suggested. I followed Noctis's idea and sanded off a used 6000 belt and applied a little Mother's Mag. My only issue with was that the MM seemed to dry to something of a crumbly texture and flake a lot. I later cleaned off the MM and applied a very thin coat of Flitz instead. It seems to work a little better (or maybe I just used a thinner coat). In any event, a few light passes on this seems to be a pretty good "final step" on a couple of knives I've tried it on.

Andrew
Click to expand...
Never really liked Flitz. The thing leaves a stink that makes burnt plastic smell pleasant.

From what you described, it sounds like you either put on too much polish or you really dried it out before use. I usually spread it real thin, like diamond paste on a strop. I also use it while it's still a little moist. Nothing really flies off when I turn it on, though some residue will come off on the blade during finishing, but that's easy to wash off.

Of course, the appeal of the Mag Polish is either a polished edge or razor sharpness, or both. I'm not sure how well Flitz polishes in comparison, but I know the Mag Polish leaves an edge that can tree-top and cut free-hanging hair, and that's pretty much what I like about it.
 
I'm guessing noctis is correct and the sharpness issue some are having is from the level of polish and not the angle. I know from playing around with a belt sander that the level of finish is very important. I don't get a screeming sharp edge unless I use a leather belt with compound on it. With hand hones I can get a very sharp edge just by ajusting pressure on hones but that doesn't really work with belts. With Belts the pressure just increases the finnal angle. If the jig holds the knife at about 20 degrees anyone really know what the angle at the very edge is since the belt has give and is convexing the edge? If you have any worn belts I'm sure most any compound will work on them to polish. Heck with my old 1x30 belts I even turned them insideout and put compound on the back and used them like that. Btw if your going to try the back of the belt trick I found useing the coarser belts work better as they are stiffer and don't give as much.
 
Noctis, thanks for that. I probably did apply too much MM and let it dry too much. I'll give it another go at some point.

db, I like the inside out belt trick. I have some semi-stiff 80MX belts that I'm not using much, so one of them may volunteer for a trial.

robino, my local Walmart carries Mother's Mag Polish in the auto supplies dept.

Andrew
 
AFAustin said:
Also, I do better getting a great final edge on some knives than on others, and haven't yet figured out all the reasons why.
Click to expand...

Same here and thanks for your reply. I think my best edge is on a CS machete but I guess this makes sense since it's 1055 carbon steel, IIRC.

Also, for anyone trying to find the Mothers mag polish, Ace Hardware carries it too. At least around here...
 
Wouldn't turning the belt inside out wear out the metal wheel at the top? Just saying, the wheel is metal, and the belt is made to abrade metal so...;)
 
Noctis3880 said:
Wouldn't turning the belt inside out wear out the metal wheel at the top? Just saying, the wheel is metal, and the belt is made to abrade metal so...;)
Click to expand...

Confess I hadn't considered that. Maybe db will chime in.

Andrew
 
Noctis3880 said:
Wouldn't turning the belt inside out wear out the metal wheel at the top? Just saying, the wheel is metal, and the belt is made to abrade metal so...;)
Click to expand...
Doesn't the wheel turn?I used this method on a 1x30 HF belt sander and the wheels on that are some type of plastic and I never noticed any wear on them.I did use a worn out coarse belt but even a worn belt will still grind somewhat so I'd suggest keeping an eye on all parts if you do decide to trye this trick. Btw this isn't my idea or trick I remeber reading about it a long time ago that is what alot of knife makers did before leather was as available as it is now.
 
db said:
Doesn't the wheel turn?I used this method on a 1x30 HF belt sander and the wheels on that are some type of plastic and I never noticed any wear on them.I did use a worn out coarse belt but even a worn belt will still grind somewhat so I'd suggest keeping an eye on all parts if you do decide to trye this trick. Btw this isn't my idea or trick I remeber reading about it a long time ago that is what alot of knife makers did before leather was as available as it is now.
Click to expand...
The Worksharp does have 2 plastic wheels yes, but those are high friction and will rotate rather than be abraded. The top wheel however is made of metal. The wheel will turn when making contact with the softer cloth backing, but on the abrasive itself I suspect the abrasive will simply slide over it because of how much harder it is and wear down the wheel. You can ask Kyle from Worksharp, but I suspect his answer will be the same. It's like what happens to a tire if you drive without the rubber.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top