Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

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I don't understand my 0909, because it fails very easy tapped on a computer pad. I can force no play hear nothing if I try to move the blade up and down. My super strong dad can't get the blade to close from hand pressure. I'm starting to think it won't fail under use and the spine taps just force the blade out by jarring them the only way the liner can go which is outward instead of inwards, due to the angle. Maybe it would wear in and seat deeper with use.

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jill jackson said:
I don't understand my 0909, because it fails very easy tapped on a computer pad. I can force no play hear nothing if I try to move the blade up and down. My super strong dad can't get the blade to close from hand pressure. I'm staring to think it won't fail under use and the spine taps just force the blade out by jarring them the only way the liner can go which is outward instead of inwards, due to the angle. Maybe it would wear in and seat deeper with use.
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It's hard to say.
I had a weird experience the opposite way with a cheap Chinese folder I threw away rather than give to someone.
You could spine whack it really hard and nothing happened...but very slight pressure on the spine applied by hand made it fold!

Liner locks are a tricky beast.
 
jill jackson said:
Tell that to the man that owns 7 with lock problems and sent 7 in and got 7 back with lock problems. I myself have two with lock problems and until they take ownership of the problem and start replacing or fixing them see no point to send them in.
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Do you know for certain that ZT will not fix your knives or that there is even a real problem? My guess is that you and others have expectations that are beyond what ZT sees as a real issue. It's likely that these knives pass ZT's QC testing but just not meeting your expectations. If someone sends back a knife and it comes back meeting a companies standards but not the owners then the issue is the knife is not a match for the owners needs or more likely expectations. Not to say that repaired centers don't make mistakes.
 
marrenmiller said:
I honestly think most knife owners don't check for or care about how well their knives actually lock up. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a lightly used or unused but decidedly high end knife described as having "solid lockup" that has issues like this. If they buy it and put it in a safe or carrying case, then they'll never notice.
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Could it be that your expectations for lock up are above the standards of most knife companies? I'm not as experienced as many here but I have 10-12 liner or frame lock knives, have sold a few others and none had any issues that I could see or found while in use.
 
jill jackson said:
I don't understand my 0909, because it fails very easy tapped on a computer pad. I can force no play hear nothing if I try to move the blade up and down. My super strong dad can't get the blade to close from hand pressure. I'm starting to think it won't fail under use and the spine taps just force the blade out by jarring them the only way the liner can go which is outward instead of inwards, due to the angle. Maybe it would wear in and seat deeper with use.
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You're correct on that assumption. I can spine whack my 0909 closed but I can't force it shut by applying normal spine pressure. (I put the spine under a table and lifted, the table moved, the blade stayed open) Which is why I said from the start, I don't see the knives failing. Do I agree that it shouldn't happen? Yes, absolutely because other knives don't shut either so it defintely can be done with spot on geometry so ZT should own up to it and address it in future knives/keep a closer eye on it. But at the same time I don't see it as a huge of a deal as some people make it out to be. (Nothing against you personally. :oops:)
 
To me this is a somewhat big deal. Big enough to check my knives. I don't pry with my knives. There's no way I'm going to be putting extended strong negative pressure on my knives. But I don't want the blade to close on me if make a mistake in a tight spot (where I sometimes use my edc) and accidentally bump something.

It's a rare case scenario and I've never cut myself this way but why risk it at all?

Unlike some of the low-drag, high-speed operators on this forum, I like safeties.
 
b00n said:
You're correct on that assumption. I can spine whack my 0909 closed but I can't force it shut by applying normal spine pressure. (I put the spine under a table and lifted, the table moved, the blade stayed open) Which is why I said from the start, I don't see the knives failing. Do I agree that it shouldn't happen? Yes, absolutely because other knives don't shut either so it defintely can be done with spot on geometry so ZT should own up to it and address it in future knives/keep a closer eye on it. But at the same time I don't see it as a huge of a deal as some people make it out to be. (Nothing against you personally. :oops:)
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I'm just trying to figure out if my ZTs lockup less securely than they should. I will be delighted if they're ok. I do know I have a lot of knives and most are locking folders and other brands don't fail very hard spine whacks. In fact some very cheap ones won't.
 
jill jackson said:
I'm just trying to figure out if my ZTs lockup less securely than they should. I will be delighted if they're ok. I do know I have a lot of knives and most are locking folders and other brands don't fail very hard spine whacks. In fact some very cheap ones won't.
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Like I said, I definitely agree with you that they should take some spine whacking without failing, since other knives clearly don't fail either (I've tried Spydies, CKF's, Reate's, Benchmade and ZT's. The only one's that failed were from the ZT's, admittedly they had the largest test pool.)
 
stabman said:
I also had quite a few knives that did not have any issue closing with spine pressure, but did have slight vertical "wiggle" when new.
After some use, the wiggle disappeared completely, as the lock wore in to the spot it would remain at from then on.

What I have learned from all these threads though is that I will NEVER make a folding knife to sell to people. Fixed blades, sure; I can make those so stout that even gorillas on steroids and amphetamines cannot break them. :D
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I have a 620cf that the lock seemed 100% solid but would close and fail with a slight spine tap on the corner of a cardboard box.

On the other hand I have an HD7 with a completely 100% worn in lock that will slide around on the tang just pushing on the spine. However it seems like the HD7 lock just won’t fail.
 
Here's a guy letting it all hang out. He said the Recon 1 (old model) had a loose pivot and passed after he tightened it up.
 
jill jackson said:
I don't understand my 0909, because it fails very easy tapped on a computer pad. I can force no play hear nothing if I try to move the blade up and down. My super strong dad can't get the blade to close from hand pressure. I'm starting to think it won't fail under use and the spine taps just force the blade out by jarring them the only way the liner can go which is outward instead of inwards, due to the angle. Maybe it would wear in and seat deeper with use.

ofne5g.jpg
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How much have you used your 0909, Jill? Mine had been my daily carry for ranch work quite a while and been used a lot before I tested it, so I'd call it well broken in. Maybe some more break-in will help. Maybe not too. Just trying to help figure out if there's a pattern.

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about the possibility that the locks may need a certain amount of break-in for solid lockup. On one hand, something expensive should probably work right out of the box but on the other hand a lot of stuff with moving parts needs some break-in of the mating surfaces before it's working up to its potential. I've seen a few steel frame pistols that didn't run reliably until a couple hundred rounds got run through them but then were perfectly fine afterwards.

It would be nice to figure out for the purpose of future purchase decisions if this is a random, ongoing problem that could get a person hurt, only a concern prior to enough break-in or only a concern under specific test conditions highly unlikely to be encountered in actual use.
 
jill jackson said:
I don't understand my 0909, because it fails very easy tapped on a computer pad. I can force no play hear nothing if I try to move the blade up and down. My super strong dad can't get the blade to close from hand pressure. I'm starting to think it won't fail under use and the spine taps just force the blade out by jarring them the only way the liner can go which is outward instead of inwards, due to the angle. Maybe it would wear in and seat deeper with use.

ofne5g.jpg
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Jill - is it because the places on the spine where the force is applied are different? When you spine tap, most likely your are tapping the spine close to the tip, whereas your dad might be pressing the spine portion close to the pivot. Plus, one is sudden impact whereas the other is gradual pressure.
 
My dad wore gloves and had the handle in one hand and the entire blade in the other and he can curl 150 pounds on a straight bar without moving anything but his arms. Tapping it is easy to unlock. Just a small tap and it's folded.
 
As others have said, it’s easy to make a folder fail intentionally, to gain viewers, but I don’t think anyone here is doing that. The guy who had 7 out of 7 failures, though, is a bit suspicious(again, as another member pointed out). I have reassembled a Spyderco Military Ti framelock that failed, in fact the lockup was almost nonexistent afterwards. Easy fix, simply remove the blade and redo. I can push the framelock part of my 0804cf so far in with my finger that it won’t close one handed, though it’s a very easy fix. Imho, for me this topic will just be put into the “mystery file.” I know ZT will replace broken blades, sometimes free of charge, and I hope those with genuine issues will be able to get theirs fixed to their complete satisfaction.
 
stabman said:
Stabbed into a muffin...no damage. :cool:

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And a tree (Ent carcass), because screw you, you effing Ents!!!

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Not full force, because all it needed was to stab in sufficiently for the requisite "Knife in Tree" picture. ;)
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I love stabbing with the 0804, that’s cool!! ( did the muffin top really deserve it tho?)
 
Well ZT is definitely of my NEXT KNIFE list. I think having 7 locks fail should be an eye opener for safety and not the topic of conspiracy theorists. I highly doubt the guy is trying to falsely discredit ZT's workman ship. Company's can and have been suing people for false clams and accusations online. Glad to see my every day work knife passed the test in that other video - The Kershaw Blur, best 60 Dollar knife EVER!
 
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