Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

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marrenmiller said:
Except if it's a liner lock... Then what?

Also, my test isn't spine whacks, but static pressure on a spine using my hands to make the lock slide across the tang. I frequently see folders fail this, and my 0200 did too.
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Carl, known as Jackknife, tells stories about his childhood in the traditionals forum. A few of these stories involve the use of a knife known as the Texas Toothpick in bar fights and such. Apparently more than a few men met their end at the hands of another man wielding this sinister slipjoint. According to many in this thread, this is impossible.
I don't pay much attention to these reports. If a lock is so loose that the blade wobbles, I either send it back to get fixed, or realize that I've worn it out. I don't, ever, rely on a lock to save my fingers. That's what my brain is for.
I've seen the posts that say "Why have a locking knife, then?" I have a few, but mostly slipjoints and fixed-blades. I have locking knives because I like the particular knife, not because I rely on the lock. Locks are just an added safety feature, but I say again, the main safety feature is between my ears. Still have all of my digits.
 
shinyedges said:
I agree a light tap should be within reason for the frame lock to handle without hand support. Of the 12 to 18 zts I've had they took a light tap without failure. The 0620cf failed the easiest. The others took more force to fail which I was ok with.

I never understood the mentality of the people who buy knives they don't like and complain. Sell them and move on, or accept what it is, or send it in and move up the KAI food chain until you either meet a wall or get what you want.
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I have knives with issues that I love so much I just accept.

It does seem like the 620/630 and 450 are the most prone to having issues.
 
I'm curious what percentage of ZTs out of all that they produce, actually have lock slip from slight spine pressure. As this thread indicates, more have had good lockups than those who haven't. And BF is just a small percentage of overall buying market.
 
Lapedog said:
I have knives with issues that I love so much I just accept.

It does seem like the 620/630 and 450 are the most prone to having issues.
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My wife's 0450 does not have lock slip at all, but it does slide all the way over when you grip the knife hard...:eek:
 
shinyedges said:
I never understood the mentality of the people who buy knives they don't like and complain. Sell them and move on, or accept what it is, or send it in and move up the KAI food chain until you either meet a wall or get what you want.
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x2!
 
Kbrasmodeler said:
Carl, known as Jackknife, tells stories about his childhood in the traditionals forum. A few of these stories involve the use of a knife known as the Texas Toothpick in bar fights and such. Apparently more than a few men met their end at the hands of another man wielding this sinister slipjoint. According to many in this thread, this is impossible.
I don't pay much attention to these reports. If a lock is so loose that the blade wobbles, I either send it back to get fixed, or realize that I've worn it out. I don't, ever, rely on a lock to save my fingers. That's what my brain is for.
I've seen the posts that say "Why have a locking knife, then?" I have a few, but mostly slipjoints and fixed-blades. I have locking knives because I like the particular knife, not because I rely on the lock. Locks are just an added safety feature, but I say again, the main safety feature is between my ears. Still have all of my digits.
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I agree with you. Doesn't have anything to do with ZT sending a number of knives out with sub-par locks, though.
This might be mostly theoretical, but it's still valid as there's an expectation of what you're buying when you spend $200-$250 on a knife advertised as "proudly overbuilt" or "built like a tank".
 
marrenmiller said:
Did that. Came back the same way. Shouldn't have to keep sending it back and forth on my time and dime till it works.

Ended up taking a huge bath on it to resell it but now it's no longer my issue.
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Personally, if I sent it in and it came back with the same problem I'd call them up and ask to speak to the highest person there, be it Thomas or whoever. Get them to personally make sure my knife was fixed properly by over seeing the reception of the knife and following it through it's warranty process and ultimately verifying it is in fact fixed.
 
91bravo said:
My wife's 0450 does not have lock slip at all, but it does slide all the way over when you grip the knife hard...:eek:
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My non cf 620 has no issue either. I’m only saying those two models seem to be problematic based on my own experience and others comments. Luckily my 620cf was easily fixed by just bending the lockbar slightly.

I have many knives that the lock will creep over if squeezed. So far I have never seen it cause an actual issue. Actually it seems like a great number of knives have locks that will creep somewhat.
 
I think Lapedog Lapedog is saying that with a hammer grip due to the index finger curl being right at the the lockbar, it actually does not apply much force on it and hence even a death grip may not be much effective to prevent the lock from slipping when a sudden negative force is applied on the spine. A right-hand framelock being held in the left hand seems to help more in this case :D
 
marrenmiller said:
I agree with you. Doesn't have anything to do with ZT sending a number of knives out with sub-par locks, though.
This might be mostly theoretical, but it's still valid as there's an expectation of what you're buying when you spend $200-$250 on a knife advertised as "proudly overbuilt" or "built like a tank".
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If every knife they sent out failed like that we'd know about it. Your experience isn't indicative of everyone's experience.

Every manufacturer has problems and lemons. You chose to handle it a certain way, you had other options. Now you're salty about it, I get it.
 
Lapedog said:
My non cf 620 has no issue either. I’m only saying those two models seem to be problematic based on my own experience and others comments. Luckily my 620cf was easily fixed by just bending the lockbar slightly.

I have many knives that the lock will creep over if squeezed. So far I have never seen it cause an actual issue. Actually it seems like a great number of knives have locks that will creep somewhat.
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It doesn't cause any issue, other than my OCD about lock movement!
 
marrenmiller said:
In my opinion, they are "sub-par" if the state of "par" is other manufacturers making locks that don't slip.
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A few lemons don't paint the overall picture of the company as a whole. And no this is not a rude statement before you go off calling me rude. For the most part, ZT owners don't have any problems with their "weakest, crappiest" framelocks.
 
sharp_edge said:
I think Lapedog Lapedog is saying that with a hammer grip due to the index finger curl being right at the the lockbar, it actually does not apply much force on it and hence even a death grip may not be much effective to prevent the lock from slipping when a sudden negative force is applied on the spine. A right-hand framelock being held in the left hand seems to help more in this case :D
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It depends on the knife. Some of them in hammer grip my finger applies virtually no force to the lockbar and some of them it does. You can always test it by holding the knife and slipping a chopstick between your fingers and trying to pry the lockbar open. That will give a good idea how much push you are giving the lockbar.

Luckily all my framelocks are righty models I carry in my left hand. Though some tasks I prefer to do right handed. I am one of those people who writes with my left hand plays most sports with my right, shoots ambidextrous and am fairly ambidextrous with knives, though some knife tasks I prefer one hand over the other.
 
sharp_edge said:
I think Lapedog Lapedog is saying that with a hammer grip due to the index finger curl being right at the the lockbar, it actually does not apply much force on it and hence even a death grip may not be much effective to prevent the lock from slipping when a sudden negative force is applied on the spine. A right-hand framelock being held in the left hand seems to help more in this case :D
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And yes that is exactly what I was saying.
 
Lapedog said:
Not that it is the typical persons application but these are marketed as tactical knives. In defensive use strikes to the spine are a very real possibility.

Also I agree on some knives in certain grips my hand seems to put pressure on the lockbar. In other knives especially in hammer grip the lockbar falls into the curl of my fingers where virtually no pressure is put on the lockbar. Or what about a pinch grip where one isn’t touching the lockbar at all.

I agree that all knife companies can have defective locks but what matters is how they deal with it when the knife is sent in for repair.

To me if a lock can be overcome by just pushing or lightly tapping on the spine that is defective. Other people find different things acceptable I’m sure.
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Rational people don't buy in to marketing. My folder is 3rd in line as a defensive tool after my pistol and fixed blade. If a folder is a primary defensive tool then you need to rethink your strategy.

A zt should pass a spine tap or pressure. It is not a replacement for the proper tool. Why do we keep having this discussion derailed by the obvious?

Folks should make sure any tool will work before they employ it in the intended task. If you don't feel comfortable with your fold as a sd tool then don't use it that way. Send it in until it is up to reasonable expectations or demand a refund. Better yet, use the better tool for sd.
 
craytab said:
Yup. S35vn. And spartan knows what they are doing with it.
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Awesome thanks! Definitely gonna look for one of these on the exchange.

danbot said:
He needs a good lawyer. I haven't read any Canadian laws about partial concealment being an offense.
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I think everything was dropped however the knife was taken and never seen again...

Charlie Mike said:
I've never had an issue. Been carrying like this for years. Cops that do notice are more interested in the kydex than the knife.
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Yes I've seen your carry

I'll need a Charlie Mike knife down the road as well
 
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