Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

[DocJD]

And if you require the strength of the triad lock you shouldn't be using a folding knife.......which is not the point of this thread, and is in fact a discussion we were trying to get away from, so thanks for bringing it back

This thread isn't about lock strength or fixed blades. It is about a specific problem from a specific company.

If it's OK to discuss fixed blades on this thread, then CS superior lock strength and reliability is clearly MUCH MORE on the topic of lock closure problems .

I don't think it's your business either to decide for others when " you shouldn't be using a folding knife " or to dictate what others' post or the direction of the thread .

And " you are quite welcome !"

 

[Lapedog]

Rational people don't buy in to marketing. My folder is 3rd in line as a defensive tool after my pistol and fixed blade. If a folder is a primary defensive tool then you need to rethink your strategy.

A zt should pass a spine tap or pressure. It is not a replacement for the proper tool. Why do we keep having this discussion derailed by the obvious?

Folks should make sure any tool will work before they employ it in the intended task. If you don't feel comfortable with your fold as a sd tool then don't use it that way. Send it in until it is up to reasonable expectations or demand a refund. Better yet, use the better tool for sd.

I definitely agree that under almost svery circumstance a fixed blade is a better sd knife. However there are people who can’t carry a fixed blade so they compromise and try to get the best sd folder they can.

One scenario where I prefer a folder to a fixed blade is especially when I’m wearing sweaters or jackets. Living in the city I have to carry a fixed blade in waist band. That means I have to lift my shirt or jacket to get at the handle. In those cases I can actually reverse wave my Spyderco Pikal faster than I can retrieve a fixed blade. I also practice reversed waving like crazy because I believe normal waving draws the knife in an awkward grip behind you.

There are some small fixed blades like the clinch pick I can wear out of waist band and thus they are easier to access.

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

I definitely agree that under almost svery circumstance a fixed blade is a better sd knife. However there are people who can’t carry a fixed blade so they compromise and try to get the best sd folder they can.

One scenario where I prefer a folder to a fixed blade is especially when I’m wearing sweaters or jackets. Living in the city I have to carry a fixed blade in waist band. That means I have to lift my shirt or jacket to get at the handle. In those cases I can actually reverse wave my Spyderco Pikal faster than I can retrieve a fixed blade. I also practice reversed waving like crazy because I believe normal waving draws the knife in an awkward grip behind you.

There are some small fixed blades like the clinch pick I can wear out of waist band and thus they are easier to access.

Curiosity is getting the better of me again. Have you ever had to draw a knife, fixed or folder, in a SD situation? How did it work out, if you did?

 

[craytab]

If it's OK to discuss fixed blades on this thread, then CS superior lock strength and reliability is clearly MUCH MORE on the topic of lock closure problems .

I don't think it's your business either to decide for others when " you shouldn't be using a folding knife " or to dictate what others' post or the direction of the thread .

And " you are quite welcome !"

Your promotion of cold steel has nothing to add to the topic here. Please stop.

 

[bambam99]

I definitely agree that under almost svery circumstance a fixed blade is a better sd knife. However there are people who can’t carry a fixed blade so they compromise and try to get the best sd folder they can.

One scenario where I prefer a folder to a fixed blade is especially when I’m wearing sweaters or jackets. Living in the city I have to carry a fixed blade in waist band. That means I have to lift my shirt or jacket to get at the handle. In those cases I can actually reverse wave my Spyderco Pikal faster than I can retrieve a fixed blade. I also practice reversed waving like crazy because I believe normal waving draws the knife in an awkward grip behind you.

There are some small fixed blades like the clinch pick I can wear out of waist band and thus they are easier to access.

Yes we can't conceal carry here.
However check out Bastinelli, good knife maker and teaches draw techniques and placements of his knives.

Also referencing the spyderco, check out wise men company signet ring. I put one on my waved endura, it's like a karambit now

 

[craytab]

I definitely agree that under almost svery circumstance a fixed blade is a better sd knife. However there are people who can’t carry a fixed blade so they compromise and try to get the best sd folder they can.

One scenario where I prefer a folder to a fixed blade is especially when I’m wearing sweaters or jackets. Living in the city I have to carry a fixed blade in waist band. That means I have to lift my shirt or jacket to get at the handle. In those cases I can actually reverse wave my Spyderco Pikal faster than I can retrieve a fixed blade. I also practice reversed waving like crazy because I believe normal waving draws the knife in an awkward grip behind you.

There are some small fixed blades like the clinch pick I can wear out of waist band and thus they are easier to access.

You forgot that the pistol is before a fixed or folder.

I get what you are saying but if sd is a concern for your folder, and you think lock failure due to backwards forces on the spine might impede that objective, you would test that potential problem? And if you did find an issue wouldn't you send it in or ask for a refund if it wasn't made right?

My point to your concern is that the topic of this thread really shouldn't be a concern to the sd minded. If you really care about what you say, a folder will be more than last resort. If you care about your tools working in a life or death situation you will test them. If you are the very very few amount of people who experience the topic of this thread, you will make sure the situation is rectified or buy another brand (or the proper tool).

 

[DocJD]

Your promotion of cold steel has nothing to add to the topic here. Please stop.

LOL !

But it's OK for you to mention and post pics of your favorites ? Transparent hypocritical nonsense . Surely you can do better .

Cold Steel is a sponsor and just as "on topic" here as anything not directly labeled as ZT and having a closure issue .

I'll never stop trying to educate and enlighten those with inferior locks with problems, that a better solution /alternative is available at very reasonable prices !

 

[craytab]

LOL !

But it's OK for you to mention and post pics of your favorites ? Transparent hypocritical nonsense . Surely you can do better .

Cold Steel is a sponsor and just as "on topic" here as anything not directly labeled as ZT and having a closure issue .

I'll never stop trying to educate and enlighten those with inferior locks with problems, that a better solution /alternative is available at very reasonable prices !

Still completely off topic. Why keep doing this?

So you are claiming cold steel gives money to the forum? Are you sure about that? How do you know?

Perhaps if you want to talk on topic about cold steel you should stick to threads where that is the topic or go to their subforum.

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

I'll never stop trying to educate and enlighten those with inferior locks with problems, that a better solution /alternative is available at very reasonable prices !

But wait! There's more! Buy two of these stupendous Cold Steel Ultra Self Defense Folders with the Triad Lock that makes fixed blade knives OBSOLETE, and we'll throw in three self defense lessons from the master, Lynn Thompson himself! Ever been accosted by grape throwing hoodlums? Intimidated by ping-pong-ball wielding maniacs? Lynn has been trained by 42 experts in fruiting self defense, and plastic ball deflection.
ACT NOW!

 

[Lapedog]

Curiosity is getting the better of me again. Have you ever had to draw a knife, fixed or folder, in a SD situation? How did it work out, if you did?

Rather not talk about things like that outside of practac.

 

[marrenmiller]

You forgot that the pistol is before a fixed or folder.

I get what you are saying but if sd is a concern for your folder, and you think lock failure due to backwards forces on the spine might impede that objective, you would test that potential problem? And if you did find an issue wouldn't you send it in or ask for a refund if it wasn't made right?

My point to your concern is that the topic of this thread really shouldn't be a concern to the sd minded. If you really care about what you say, a folder will be more than last resort. If you care about your tools working in a life or death situation you will test them. If you are the very very few amount of people who experience the topic of this thread, you will make sure the situation is rectified or buy another brand (or the proper tool).

I agree with you on the pistol, but some of us can't get CCW permits where we live *cough* bay area *cough*... I don't even think I can legally carry a fixed blade in my county.

We do test our knives though. The first thing I do to mine out of the box, before I even check the edge, is if the lock works properly. Which is how I end up noticing that some of my folders will fail if tested.

My concern is that the knives come that way in the first place more often than I'm comfortable with, and that I can't guarantee they'll be fixed when I send them in for warranty work. They might be the wrong tool for the job, but that's no excuse for some of their locks coming from the factory with the propensity to slip.

 

[Lapedog]

You forgot that the pistol is before a fixed or folder.

I get what you are saying but if sd is a concern for your folder, and you think lock failure due to backwards forces on the spine might impede that objective, you would test that potential problem? And if you did find an issue wouldn't you send it in or ask for a refund if it wasn't made right?

My point to your concern is that the topic of this thread really shouldn't be a concern to the sd minded. If you really care about what you say, a folder will be more than last resort. If you care about your tools working in a life or death situation you will test them. If you are the very very few amount of people who experience the topic of this thread, you will make sure the situation is rectified or buy another brand (or the proper tool).

Well I live in Canada so I can’t use a pistol for sd. I’m not supposed to even carry a knife for sd. But I do test out any folder to make sure it fulfills my requirements before I would even consider it.

Generally I agree that an sd knife virtually always has to be a fixed blade.

 

[DocJD]

Cold Steel Drop Forged Bowie , on piece (integral) of drop forged 52100 steel with nothing extra to break , maintain or clean . Very strong and inexpensive .

Cold Steel Holdout in CTS-XHP steel and DLC , with Tri-ad lock . Extremely capable , large , trouble free and relatively inexpensive .

It's highly unlikely you'd ever have a lock closure issue (once broken in ) with either of the above !

 

[marrenmiller]

[QUOTE="Lapedog, post: 18425509, member: Generally I agree that an sd knife virtually always has to be a fixed blade.[/QUOTE]

I don't know why it's such a contentious point that both this statement above and "ZT liner and frame locks shouldn't be slipping open" can't both be true.

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

Rather not talk about things like that outside of practac.

I understand. I'm just trying to get a feel for how often this actually comes up. It's been claimed that many need super-strong locks for SD purposes. I'm honestly curious if this is as common as it's made to seem. Are you willing to give a yes/no answer as to whether you've had to pull a knife for SD, and whether it involved actually using it to inflict harm on someone? Multiple times?

 

[91bravo]

If you're pulling out your knife in a SD situation, then you're in a tight spot.

 

[craytab]

Well I live in Canada so I can’t use a pistol for sd. I’m not supposed to even carry a knife for sd. But I do test out any folder to make sure it fulfills my requirements before I would even consider it.

Generally I agree that an sd knife virtually always has to be a fixed blade.

That's good to hear (about the testing, not the pistol). Even more so if it is a ZT. To be fair, I didn't really consider this an issue that would warrant testing my knives. Since this thread, I have tested them and all passed, at or otherwise.

 

[craytab]

Cold Steel Drop Forged Bowie , on piece (integral) of drop forged 52100 steel with nothing extra to break , maintain or clean . Very strong and inexpensive .

Cold Steel Holdout in CTS-XHP steel and DLC , with Tri-ad lock . Extremely capable , large , trouble free and relatively inexpensive .

It's highly unlikely you'd ever have a lock closure issue (once broken in ) with either of the above !

You seem confused and are promoting cold steel again. Those don't have the locks we are discussing and aren't a ZT.

 

[DocJD]

You forgot that the pistol is before a fixed or folder.

I get what you are saying but if sd is a concern for your folder, and you think lock failure due to backwards forces on the spine might impede that objective, you would test that potential problem? And if you did find an issue wouldn't you send it in or ask for a refund if it wasn't made right?

My point to your concern is that the topic of this thread really shouldn't be a concern to the sd minded. If you really care about what you say, a folder will be more than last resort. If you care about your tools working in a life or death situation you will test them. If you are the very very few amount of people who experience the topic of this thread, you will make sure the situation is rectified or buy another brand (or the proper tool).

ZT is often promoted and expected by many customers to fulfill a "tactical role" of hard use and SD . When properly made and adjusted properly, at least some models of ZT are quite capable .

 

[DocJD]

You seem confused and are promoting cold steel again. Those don't have the locks we are discussing and aren't a ZT.

You have discussed both fixed and none ZT's and even posted pics . Seems it is thou who art confused .