ZT 0180 Hard Use

Wow~! You really did a number there - my hand hurts just reading about it!

Thanks for the review and pictures!

best

mqqn
 
No problem, I forgot to mention that before any of the tests I took those initial crappy grinds down to an even 16 degrees per side. That's fairly acute for a knife like this. I really did not expect for the edge to hold up as well as what it did. I was pretty hesitant before doing the cinder block test. I have faith that this knife will do whatever is asked of it short of strapping dynamite to it and blowing it up. Even then, I doubt it'd really damage it too much. Maybe the handles and lanyard would need to be replaced after the explosion. If I ever find myself needing to dunk something into a vat of molten metal, then I guess maybe I'd find something else to use. Short of that, though, I can't see what this knife wouldn't handle. Maybe the old Noz tests where he puts a knife into a vice and goes to wailing on it with a sledgehammer? I don't want to risk it.
 
It's definitely not stainless but this knife is coated so it's not a concern. If I'm not mistaken it's about the same as 3V or maybe a little less. I've used it to slice up random foods like fruits and pizza and whatnot and the edge had a mild patina on it but didn't rust. The patina wasn't deep. I cut up some lasagna and purposefully left that crap on it for a night just to see what would happen. It didn't rust or anything from it. I live about 1/5 of a mile from an Atlantic estuary, close walking distance, and it's technically swamp land where everything is always slightly damp, and about 20 miles from the Atlantic Ocean and the humidity is pretty high most days and I've not seen an issue with rust. I'd say from my experience more than 1095 but less than D2. Unless you were planning on using it with highly acidic food or as a dive or fishing knife then it probably isn't a real concern if you use it. I'm sure if you left it in a damp leather sheath for a couple of days it'd form some rust.
 
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After saw your zt0180 edge after cutting a nail, I was curious about my SQ 52100 strength & toughness.

Spec:
52100 super quenched; 61rc; sharpened 20dps with 0.025"(0.64mm) behind edge thickness.
Cut a 16d size nail into 6 pieces. 1 cinder block cut. And cut 1 small rock.
https://youtu.be/s6YaQkXVRUA (~6 minutes length)

Close up pic of edge (at the end of the video)
View attachment 562557

Thoughts/assessment?
 
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bluntcut said:
After saw your zt0180 edge after cutting a nail, I was curious about my SQ 52100 strength & toughness.

Spec:
52100 super quenched; 61rc; sharpened 20dps with 0.025"(1mm) behind edge thickness.
Cut a 16d size nail into 6 pieces. 1 cinder block cut. And cut 1 small rock.
https://youtu.be/s6YaQkXVRUA (~6 minutes length)

Close up pic of edge (at the end of the video)
View attachment 562557

Thoughts/assessment?
Click to expand...

There are a couple of things a little different. I don't know exactly how much difference they would make. Your blade is sharpened at 40 degrees inclusive, the ZT was sharpened at 32 degrees. The spine and primary bevel look a little thicker on yours. I don't know what kind of nail I tried cutting through but it took harder shots without splitting until the hammer broke. I also placed a small piece of 2x4 between the hammer and the spine to prevent the dings from the hammer on the spine. I don't know of cutting a piece of a cinder block is any easier or harder than trying to cut at a full block.

Having said that, your edge looks like it took less damage than the ZT. ZT also cannot really hit a superb heat treat regimen doing them in large numbers without really jacking the costs up.

I've always been interested in your blades. When you had the test blade giveaway my name was on the list. I was really hoping to test one of them and post the results. It disappoints me a little that the guys who won haven't posted anything about them. I really think it's quite possible you're doing something others aren't and that it might very well be making a better blade. Interesting results and I'd like to see others resting their blades for toughness and strength, especially if those makers are claiming their knives are built for rough use. Bravo on your work.
 
Short of long story - I end up with 1/4" instead of 3/16" thick test knives (zt0180 is 0.2" thick). For this test spine thickness isn't a factor. However 20dps edge wedge is 25% more stout than 16dps, so damage depth would be at least proportionally less with obtuse angle. A direct hammer strike against the spine is most effective however a few strong strike on 62+rc spine can have nasty result -- umm that was how my test knife went from 4.2" to 2" blade. Oh, what is your zt0180 behind-edge-thickness?

Cinder block cutting (off camera tests before video) is easy in whole or chunk form. After 1/4"-1/3" cut depth, wedging take over. Initiate the cut is when most damaging to an edge. In video, a glanced off cut to a rock - putting a lot of lateral load, which would inflict heavy damage for a less strong & tough edge.

I will thin out this test stubby knife spine to 1/8" thick and sharpen with 15dps with 0.02" edge thick. Then see how it holds up against nail.

About my earlier GAW of SQ blades. 1. Those blades were too good to toss away. 2. They weren't tough as my new ht params. A few months back, after SEM & BSED imaging of my blade in prev ht params. I suspended that ht track because I can't fix the low toughness w/o more sophisticated equipment. My current ht fixed the toughness issue but cost grain size.

I actually made 2 test knives. The 2nd one is 1 or 2 rc higher. It can handle cinder block (cut & stab) but not sure how it fare against nail. If it survive my test + if you like & time permits, I could slap on a crude handle and send it your way for testing and possibly keep.

bodog said:
There are a couple of things a little different. I don't know exactly how much difference they would make. Your blade is sharpened at 40 degrees inclusive, the ZT was sharpened at 32 degrees. The spine and primary bevel look a little thicker on yours. I don't know what kind of nail I tried cutting through but it took harder shots without splitting until the hammer broke. I also placed a small piece of 2x4 between the hammer and the spine to prevent the dings from the hammer on the spine. I don't know of cutting a piece of a cinder block is any easier or harder than trying to cut at a full block.

Having said that, your edge looks like it took less damage than the ZT. ZT also cannot really hit a superb heat treat regimen doing them in large numbers without really jacking the costs up.

I've always been interested in your blades. When you had the test blade giveaway my name was on the list. I was really hoping to test one of them and post the results. It disappoints me a little that the guys who won haven't posted anything about them. I really think it's quite possible you're doing something others aren't and that it might very well be making a better blade. Interesting results and I'd like to see others resting their blades for toughness and strength, especially if those makers are claiming their knives are built for rough use. Bravo on your work.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah man, I'd love to test one of your blades.

I don't know what the behind the edge thickness is of the ZT but yours does look thinner. That's just eyeballing it from the video. I meant to add that in but after working 15 hours yesterday and getting 5 hours or sleep it slipped my mind. Thank you for bringing it up.
 
bluntcut said:
If you are willing to put a handle on it -> substantially increase the possibility...


Look at D2 vs 3v(or Vanadis4) at 60rc & 62rc
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Toughness-Expansion-on-Charpy-C-Notch-Values

I plan to make a 62rc D2 0.130" thick, 16dps w/ 0.025" edge thick and put it through similar test above. Crazy:eek:
Click to expand...

I don't know if I'd do much more than wrap it up with paracord or something but I can still test it without a true handle as long as it's not a rat tail tang or something so thin or short that I couldn't grab onto it. I emailed you via the forum function.
 
It's a full tang, a little narrower than zt0180. Rather than paracord handle - later this weekend, I will slap a pair a scale on this thing & rough sand it.

** replied to your email **
 
bluntcut said:
After saw your zt0180 edge after cutting a nail, I was curious about my SQ 52100 strength & toughness.

Spec:
52100 super quenched; 61rc; sharpened 20dps with 0.025"(0.64mm) behind edge thickness.
Cut a 16d size nail into 6 pieces. 1 cinder block cut. And cut 1 small rock.
https://youtu.be/s6YaQkXVRUA (~6 minutes length)

Close up pic of edge (at the end of the video)
View attachment 562557

Thoughts/assessment?
Click to expand...

Based on your picture, at 480p, the edge damage to yours looks in line with the ZT, although bodog put his knife through a lot more rigor, at least I gather that from his decriptions above of hand fatigue etc from the amount of chopping and cutting he performed, while your test was done in a ~6 minute video -

Here is a screen cap of your damage closeup since your attachment is not displaying for me -

Your process looks to have provided a good hardness as well - thanks for the video.

best

mqqn
 

Attachments

  • 2015-07-22 12-55-31_Super quenched 52100 chop nail, cinder block and a small rock - YouTube.jpg
    2015-07-22 12-55-31_Super quenched 52100 chop nail, cinder block and a small rock - YouTube.jpg
    24.7 KB · Views: 27
Edge bevel does looks bad, but dark spots were mostly granite smeared. Here is the edge shown at the end of the video
N8XBOey.jpg


edited to add: This 6 minutes video was shot, right after I did a 25+ minutes video. Actually you can hear my slightly winded breathing. That 25+m vid contains too many brain dead oopsies to post.

mqqn said:
Based on your picture, at 480p, the edge damage to yours looks in line with the ZT, although bodog put his knife through a lot more rigor, at least I gather that from his decriptions above of hand fatigue etc from the amount of chopping and cutting he performed, while your test was done in a ~6 minute video -

Here is a screen cap of your damage closeup since your attachment is not displaying for me -

Your process looks to have provided a good hardness as well - thanks for the video.

best

mqqn
Click to expand...
 
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bluntcut said:
Edge bevel does looks bad, but dark spots were mostly granite smeared. Here is the edge shown at the end of the video
N8XBOey.jpg


edited to add: This 6 minutes video was shot, right after I did a 25+ minutes video. Actually you can hear my slightly winded breathing. That 25+m vid contains too many brain dead oopsies to post.
Click to expand...

haha! understood!

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
Based on your picture, at 480p, the edge damage to yours looks in line with the ZT, although bodog put his knife through a lot more rigor, at least I gather that from his decriptions above of hand fatigue etc from the amount of chopping and cutting he performed, while your test was done in a ~6 minute video -

Here is a screen cap of your damage closeup since your attachment is not displaying for me -

Your process looks to have provided a good hardness as well - thanks for the video.

best

mqqn
Click to expand...

I did do a lot of cutting but I think had the knife had more contoured handles my hands wouldn't have been so fatigued and sore. I blame the blocky handles more than the amount of use alone.
 
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