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Bad I paid Schenk Knives $10,000... months later no knives, no refund

REK Knives said:
I texted Zane for an update, he said that he is the CEO and had a meeting with the owner(s) this week and this is "closer to getting resolved." He said that he stands behind his word and will figure it out and get me paid. I just wanted to update everyone where I am at with this. Once it comes to around the 20th, if nothing has been done by then the goal is to push this info to all major social media platforms and possibly youtubers/podcasters.
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I hope Zane is being truthful, but to me it sounds 100% like he is stalling you. An ethical business would have already refunded your money. While I respect your patience, I think I would be turning up the heat NOW. Please keep us posted.
 
REK Knives said:
I texted Zane for an update, he said that he is the CEO and had a meeting with the owner(s) this week and this is "closer to getting resolved." He said that he stands behind his word and will figure it out and get me paid. I just wanted to update everyone where I am at with this. Once it comes to around the 20th, if nothing has been done by then the goal is to push this info to all major social media platforms and possibly youtubers/podcasters.
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Josh you are getting taken for a ride. The CEO should be more than able to address this issue.

You stated in your original post that the owner is listed as Norman F Schenk, most likely the father. There is no meeting with the owner it is just more stalling.

If you want to give them one last chance then make a trip to Idaho and request an in person meeting and record the conversation. Or set up a Teams/Zoom call and record that.

I would just move on to litigation and verify with your lawyer before moving on further with social media. Which based on your original post I think you probably have. Would hate for you to be accused for libel or others for slander as I'm sure they would push back with.
 
REK Knives said:
I texted Zane for an update, he said that he is the CEO and had a meeting with the owner(s) this week and this is "closer to getting resolved." He said that he stands behind his word and will figure it out and get me paid. I just wanted to update everyone where I am at with this. Once it comes to around the 20th, if nothing has been done by then the goal is to push this info to all major social media platforms and possibly youtubers/podcasters.
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I've been following this thread and I'm really sorry to see the situation you're in. That's a lot of money to watch go down the drain.

Several people have suggested that you immediately consult a lawyer. That's what you should do. If you haven't done that, DO IT NOW.

The first thing the lawyer will ask to see is the contract / purchase order / quote from the vendor. If you don't have these, I'm afraid your legal recourse may be very limited. Chances are the money you sent the vendor is long gone and they may very well be basically insolvent. Some clown going on about being the "CEO" of Rinkydink Inc. and needing to talk to the "owner" is a big, giant red flag. He must have seen "Billions" one time too many. Without a contract of some kind, you may not even be able to prove in court what if anything the vendor agreed to do for you. No court will award you anything - if there's anything to award in the first place.

Anyone thinking of having any OEM knives made, know this: There are very few companies in the world who can make high quality OEM knives or even grind blanks to industrial standards. There's reasons why most OEM knives are made in China or Maniago, Italy. If you're talking to anybody about OEM work be damn sure you get an official, written offer/quote listing exactly what and how they will do for you and what it will cost based on an industrial drawing of the part you provided and when it will be done and delivered. Check their references if it's not a well known company. Then issue a written purchase order referencing their quote and once again listing exactly, exactly what is to be done and including a drawing with 100% instructions. You cannot have too much information. Even with 100% honest vendors, expect something to go wrong or there to be "misunderstandings."

Good luck and I hope you get made whole. Don't under any circumstances confront the vendor in person unless you want to add jail to your list of woes. Or getting shot.
 
Lawyer, not social media. There's pressure and there's court pressure. They are not equal in effectiveness. You should also be in touch with the Better Busniess Bureau in the area where Schenk is located, assuming you are on the up and up.
 
I've been thinking about this thread all day. I was in a similar situation in another industry and gave the individual that I was working with too much grace and it cost me quite a lot.

Again as Kevin Wilkins Kevin Wilkins , myself and others have said get a lawyer.

Also, there was mention earlier in the thread of the need for an org that could help knife makers in such as situation and it got me thinking.

Anthony (Tony) Sculimbrene over at "Everyday Commentary" is a lawyer. He also writes for several sites including his own. In the last year he started consulting for the American Knife and Tool Institute (AKTI). It is a non profit.

It might be worth a shot to see if Tony would be willing to help. I don't know Tony personally other than enjoying his work but I'm sure others on here probably do.
 
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I can’t offer more than what has already been said. I will agree that it’s extremely suspect that he is the ceo and has to talk to the owners(his daddy). To me he is running to his dad to fix his screw up and trying to buy time. The business is an llc so I’d expect they will dissolve Schenk and open up under something else.

Schenk Knives has some splaining to do. I thought they seemed fishy when I started seeing their folders pop up a year or 2 ago. Good luck Josh.
 
ncrockclimb said:
I hope Zane is being truthful, but to me it sounds 100% like he is stalling you. An ethical business would have already refunded your money. While I respect your patience, I think I would be turning up the heat NOW. Please keep us posted.
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Josh ^^ this.

It's time to take the gloves off and put them under pressure.
If things get bad for them and they voluntarily liquidate the business you will just be another creditor and only get pennies in the Dollar. Go at them now.
 
Kevin Wilkins said:
I've been following this thread and I'm really sorry to see the situation you're in. That's a lot of money to watch go down the drain.

Several people have suggested that you immediately consult a lawyer. That's what you should do. If you haven't done that, DO IT NOW.

The first thing the lawyer will ask to see is the contract / purchase order / quote from the vendor. If you don't have these, I'm afraid your legal recourse may be very limited. Chances are the money you sent the vendor is long gone and they may very well be basically insolvent. Some clown going on about being the "CEO" of Rinkydink Inc. and needing to talk to the "owner" is a big, giant red flag. He must have seen "Billions" one time too many. Without a contract of some kind, you may not even be able to prove in court what if anything the vendor agreed to do for you. No court will award you anything - if there's anything to award in the first place.

Anyone thinking of having any OEM knives made, know this: There are very few companies in the world who can make high quality OEM knives or even grind blanks to industrial standards. There's reasons why most OEM knives are made in China or Maniago, Italy. If you're talking to anybody about OEM work be damn sure you get an official, written offer/quote listing exactly what and how they will do for you and what it will cost based on an industrial drawing of the part you provided and when it will be done and delivered. Check their references if it's not a well known company. Then issue a written purchase order referencing their quote and once again listing exactly, exactly what is to be done and including a drawing with 100% instructions. You cannot have too much information. Even with 100% honest vendors, expect something to go wrong or there to be "misunderstandings."

Good luck and I hope you get made whole. Don't under any circumstances confront the vendor in person unless you want to add jail to your list of woes. Or getting shot.
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Not to detract from your points, which are excellent, but I suspect there is enough text/email communication to substantiate the existence of a oral agreement in this case (assuming there is no written agreement). Your point stands, however.

The most obvious legal impediment here is the jurisdictional issue because REK and Schenk appear to be in different states.

Good luck, Josh. You don't deserve this and I hope it works out. The "CEO" BS is not a good sign.
 
REK Knives said:
Timeline Continued:
  • ...SNIP...
  • 11/21 I hired an attorney and a demand letter was sent. Schenk was given until 11/15 to respond but has not responded in any way.
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The time for being the nice guy, (we all know what happens to them), is over. It's time to hold his feet to the fire. His putting you off for weeks at a time with empty promises is simply the way of criminals and ne'er-do-wells.

What once may have been an honorable company and establishment, no longer is worthy of that name. You are holding the bag, Josh, to the tune of $10K+, which has damaged your ability to grow your business and provide for your family.

He has used up any sympathy he might have once garnered. Time to let those lawyers earn their keep.
 
It has been mentioned before, but their Google reviews show that Schenk has done this before, and more than once. At this point, get a lawyer involved. IMO, you should not wait.
 
I have not been lucky enough to own one of your knives, but your reputation is stellar. Imho if Schenk had any intention of paying you, he would have at least made some sort of monetary gesture in good faith. So many people now seem to just expect the wronged party to give up the fight. Please do not roll over on this. Best of luck with recuperating your losses (should include interest), and I hope 2024 is a great one.
 
I hope that you can exercise all of your options. At least your problem may be solved here in the USA, which is a big advantage. We can all make mistakes trusting the wrong people. Two decades ago, I lost $22k, out of U S jurisdiction, and never recovered a cent. My wife still likes to bring it up on occasion to tease me. After that I learned to tighten control of my money.
 
I agree It'll be more effective to get a lawyer. But I am just curious how much the lawyer will charge.
 
Kevin Wilkins said:
I've been following this thread and I'm really sorry to see the situation you're in. That's a lot of money to watch go down the drain.

Several people have suggested that you immediately consult a lawyer. That's what you should do. If you haven't done that, DO IT NOW.

The first thing the lawyer will ask to see is the contract / purchase order / quote from the vendor. If you don't have these, I'm afraid your legal recourse may be very limited. Chances are the money you sent the vendor is long gone and they may very well be basically insolvent. Some clown going on about being the "CEO" of Rinkydink Inc. and needing to talk to the "owner" is a big, giant red flag. He must have seen "Billions" one time too many. Without a contract of some kind, you may not even be able to prove in court what if anything the vendor agreed to do for you. No court will award you anything - if there's anything to award in the first place.

Anyone thinking of having any OEM knives made, know this: There are very few companies in the world who can make high quality OEM knives or even grind blanks to industrial standards. There's reasons why most OEM knives are made in China or Maniago, Italy. If you're talking to anybody about OEM work be damn sure you get an official, written offer/quote listing exactly what and how they will do for you and what it will cost based on an industrial drawing of the part you provided and when it will be done and delivered. Check their references if it's not a well known company. Then issue a written purchase order referencing their quote and once again listing exactly, exactly what is to be done and including a drawing with 100% instructions. You cannot have too much information. Even with 100% honest vendors, expect something to go wrong or there to be "misunderstandings."

Good luck and I hope you get made whole. Don't under any circumstances confront the vendor in person unless you want to add jail to your list of woes. Or getting shot.
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Truer words have never been spoken

I would add that, since its likely they're either insolvent or otherwise in distress, getting a claim in is of paramount importance. The way these things tend to work is first come first served. Meaning, if someone owes us $10k each but only has $15k in the bank, if I strike first (and get a judgement) I get the full $10k owed while you might only get $5k.

You may even be able to go after their personal assets.

Ninja Addendum: All of the above is true unless they're already in some leg of bankruptcy. If they are, then you REALLY need a lawyer. All of the above is true (minus how its settled, depending on the state) and you have to contend with bankruptcy court which is a niche unlike any other in law.
 
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Kevin W. said:
Josh you are getting taken for a ride. The CEO should be more than able to address this issue.

You stated in your original post that the owner is listed as Norman F Schenk, most likely the father. There is no meeting with the owner it is just more stalling.

If you want to give them one last chance then make a trip to Idaho and request an in person meeting and record the conversation. Or set up a Teams/Zoom call and record that.

I would just move on to litigation and verify with your lawyer before moving on further with social media. Which based on your original post I think you probably have. Would hate for you to be accused for libel or others for slander as I'm sure they would push back with.
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This right here. Any CEO not permitted or confident enough to make minute transactions and reimbursements to ensure his company’s good name should be removed. If he is approved to make these decisions and hasn’t, like Kevin said, you’re getting a dog and pony show until they can figure out how to make this go away.

Even if the agreed upon product and service is rendered, in this situation can the customer really be confident of his purchase? How much time and money will it take to individually inspect each knife sent from the offending party?

I agree with the rest of the forum members here. Litigation immediately. A good lawyer, not one from the mall.
 
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