A change in homestead equipment

C

Conajohara

Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Messages
89
I have found a better homestead weapon for the conditions where I live. Instead of a rifle I've went with a pump shotgun. The Mossburg model 590, the military version.
It has a 9 round capacity, a bayonet lug and a heat shield. All three features I found were very useful when I was in the army, especially the heat shield as I have burned my hands on hot barrels many times before!
And the bayonet is an extremely good weapon.
The shotgun seems to be much better suited for the thick jungle-type foliage you find here. It's very tough and perfectly reliable, much better than the M-16's I've been issued. It's the khukuri of firearms!
I've tested it up to 50 meters range, about as far as you can "see" through the forest up here. It seems to be an excellent homestead gun for self defense and for big and small game hunting. It's a perfect companion for my khukuri and hopefully for the 18 century model I may one day own!
Any thoughts on shotgun vs rifle for homestead?
 
I've got a 590. I have both the pistol grip only stock and the "tactical" full stock with the pistol grip and the speedfeed feature in the stock. "Mountain" type sling. 9 rounds of 00 Buck in the tube and 4 in the buttstock. Ghost ring sights. Pretty formidible if the poo-poo hits the fan.

Pretty fun to shoot too!!!

 
Did you know: a 50 cal ammo can will hold a dozen bricks of 22lr? ( One brick equals ten fifty round boxes or 500 rounds total )
 
Try the CZ584: 30-06 over 12 ga., backed up by Savage 94 in 22lr over 20 ga. Or go for a drilling.

Another neat gun is CZ's mini mauser bolt action, previously available in 22 hornet, 222 Remington, and 223 Remington (5.56 Nato), is now available in 7.62x39. ( Same as the AK/SKS )

And the Mosin-Nagant, the Lee-Enfield No.4 Mark 1/2, and other bolt action battle rifles all are chambered in powerful enough cartridges to do what is needed. At prices that are a steal right now. Beautiful condition Nagants well under $100.

I'd also love to have a CZ bolt action in 7x57 ( same cal as my FN semi battle rifle ).

I traded off two Mossy 590s. Gun snobbery. Plus I prefer 20ga.

Remember the first rule: have a gun.
Remember the second rule: most any gun will do if you will do. And finally:
Remember that if it comes to it, your first gun only has to be good enough to get you your second gun.

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[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited 01-16-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited 01-16-2001).]
 
The Savage 94 is a helluva Grouse gun. I use the 22LR if they sittin' inna tree, and the 20 ga if they flee!!!!


edited fur pour speling
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[This message has been edited by rdnzl (edited 01-16-2001).]
 
I really like the Savage 24, but I always seem to forget where I left the barrel selector. And a sitting rabbit at 75 yards with #6s usaully becomes a running rabbit at 125!!
 
I much prefer the rifle as I have little experience with a shotgun. I do own one of the old Winchester Marines Stainless though.

My reasons for selecting the rifle are: engage at longer distances, better penetration, capable of dispatching larger game, easier to reload, less bulky ammunition, and a better club if required.

I am curious why you would select a military style shotgun. There is a lot of extra weight due to the heat shield and bayonet lug. I would take a variable choke instead of either of these items. The ghost ring sight is a good idea for a rifle type person like myself.

Lee Enfield #4 MK2 or Jungle Carbine (with wandering 0) along with a 22" Ang Khola.

Will
 
The only objection I have to a shotgun as a primary homestead firearm is the weight and bulk of the ammunition. If you need to take a long hike you will be limited by what you can carry.
I bought the CZ Mini Mauser that Rusty mentioned last fall and the only thing I don't like about it is the 5 rd detachable box magazine. Other than that I love it. It wouldn't have near the stopping power of a shotgun but with my low power scope I can see more at middle distances.

Up close, I'd rather have my Glock than either a rifle or a shotgun.
 
Hi Will! The reason I selected a military shotgun was for the added durability and reliability. The Mossburg model 590 was the only shotgun to pass the 3000 round continuous firing and other military tests. It weighs just a few ounces more than a standard shotgun. I did not want a variable choke because you have to check them for looseness and in the field they can jam or rust in place. Plus, it seems to me a modified or full choke tears up game. I wanted the heat shield and bayonet lug because of things I've noticed when I was in the army. When you fire a lot of rounds quickly the barrel gets really hot - I've been burned by both M-16's and M-60 MG's.
I've even partially melted my sling one time!
Also, it seems it's easy to damage the barrel w/o some sort of guard! Almost every M-16 I've ever had has had damaged guards due to being dropped and other rough treatment. The bayonet lug allows you to attach a bayonet of course, I feel the bayonet is an extremely effective weapon, both physically and psychologically. In the Gulf war I noticed it was much more effective in controlling POW's and conducting vehicle searches with a bayonet on than off. People seem to instinctively react to it and keep away much better then with just a plain loaded rifle. I even feel it kept people from having to be shot on more than one occasion. As for the weight and bulk of the shotgun ammo, a 30-06 round weighs about one oz. and a 12 ga. 00 buckshot round weighs a little less then two oz. This gives me a baseload of 56 rounds at less than 7 pounds weight, which is about what 100 rounds of 7.62 weigh. And I normally carried 350 rounds for my '60. In planning my baseload I'm using the army standard of 7 magazines or loads per weapon. As to the range question, the whole time I was in the army almost every month we went on field exercises where we would run around and aggress each other or defend our perimeter. It seemed to me that these attacks happen extremely fast and extremely close up, in fact I rarely ever even aimed!
I normally did almost all my firing on full auto or burst. This was much more effective, I got many more hits on their MILES gear. But we always trained at the range on single shot, I normally shot anywhere from 31 - 34 out of normal 40 rd qualification.
 
I like the quick handling of the 20ga., which is to the 12ga. what the 30-30 is to the 30-06. The weight is a factor too. But you can get Mexican ammo for the 12 that's somewhere about 1&1/2 to 2" rather than 2&3/4" in buckshot, birdshot, and maybe slugs too.

Yup, call me Wimpy. Just ain't manly enough to take the 458 out after jackrabbits no more. It ended hurting me worse than the wabbits!
 
I have two shotguns but don't use them much. My standard 28" VR Remington 1100 12 gauge is a hunting gun but around here I use it mostly to kill feral cats. Damn things are everywhere and they multiply fast. I would like to have more than a few quail someday but they roam around and eat all the babies. The Russian side by side with external hammers and 19" barrels is a house gun. It is kept loaded with high brass #4's (pheasant load but deadly at close range). There's a box of 0 buckshot and slugs right next to it. I just put a Gunsock over the gun and put it on top of a tall cabinet in the kitchen. You can't see it and nobody under six feet could reach it. It's out of the children's reach but I can get it if I need it.

I agree with Will. 12 gauge rounds are too darn big to carry around. I was a 16H in the Active Army and then a Drill Sergeant (11B) in the Active Reserve. I can carry a pack around if I really want to but why? You want to walk around your property carrying a basic load? Not me, I'm out there for the joy of it. I usually strap on my Glock 17 9mm with a 19 shot magazine loaded with reloads (Speer 115 gr. JHP). Another magazine loaded with 17 rounds more may come if I think I will need it for some reason. Then whatever rifle I want to shoot. For sheer utility I would probably leave the centerfire beauties at home and pick up the Ruger 10/22 and a box or two more of Remington Yellow Jackets. I could walk around all day wearing the Glock and carrying the 10/22 on a sling and never even notice them.

We all like different things. That's why there is so many different kinds of guns. I've got Gun Digests going back to the 1960's. I really think we have better guns now than ever before. I say that knowing Colt and Smith made better finished guns pre-war. But the wide variety of types of guns plus the advantages of technology make this a golden time for gun collecting. There are literally hundreds of guns that I would love to have. I'll quit buying knives long before I quit buying guns.

Gregg
 
Conajohara,

You put much more emphasis on combat than I would with a homestead gun. I was more oriented towards hunting and less towards battle. I don't disagree with your comments but if I were to need the firepower you are talking about, I would seriously consider moving my homestead.

Will
 
Don't encourage him Bill! I like military rifles as much as anyone but I consider the likelyhood that I will ever be forced to use one against a human to be just about nill. The violent crime rate in the US has fallen every single year for the last nine years. We are down to levels not seen since the 1960's. The accidental shootings statistics are down to 1930's numbers and continue to decline each and every year. The media and Hollywood like to show an America that is full of crime and shootings but the reality is a very long way from that. No wonder people in other countries think that the US is an unsafe place with random killings in every city large and small just being a way of life. I just moved last year from a little town NE of Tulsa that has been around since statehood. I was doing research into crime rates. I went downtown to find out how long it had been since there had been a murder in Collinsville. The answer was "never." There is a bustling suburb of South Tulsa called Broken Arrow. Thousands and thousands of people. Growing constantly and right next to the busiest part of the city. They had a guy killed last year and the TV story mentioned that it was the first murder in BA in over ten years. If you live in one of the charnel houses like Chicago, LA, or Washington DC, all I can ask is, "why?"

Gregg
 
I have to agree with Gregg. Don't get invovled in drug trafficking and your chances of becoming a homicide victim decrease drastically. Use the weapon between your ears and you can avoid most other problems. If it comes down to shooting, you've made a mistake somewhere or are darned unlucky. Train and prepare yourself just in case, but few of us will ever fire a shot in anger.
 

[This message has been edited by Geraldo (edited 01-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Geraldo (edited 01-18-2001).]
 
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