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Amazing edges! Amazing pics! Wow.
Alright, what's going on here... Just got a DMT EF.
- Thread starter THG
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I'll bet that edge will shave the hair off of a gnats butt without waking him up.
Thanks for the help, guys. It's starting to do a better job now, although I still see little benefit for my own personal purposes (I use my knives quite a bit, and I think it would have been better to stick with F, which gives me a very sharp edge and doesn't take long to sharpen up/touch up on). But I guess it's cool to know I've got a sharper edge 
I use mine dry and rinse them with water and occasionally clean them with Barkeeper's friend. Water might or might not help; I just don't like to deal with the mess
And @ Knifenut: thanks for the pics.
I use mine dry and rinse them with water and occasionally clean them with Barkeeper's friend. Water might or might not help; I just don't like to deal with the mess
And @ Knifenut: thanks for the pics.
The Mastiff
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Knifenut, thanks for taking the time to post those. I have begun to search out your sharpening related threads just to see the pictures & examples you are posting. I've been sharpening for 30 some years and I appreciate the level of skill you are showing.
It's nice to see what it's supposed to look like when done correctly. Joe
It's nice to see what it's supposed to look like when done correctly. Joe
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Thanks for the help, guys. It's starting to do a better job now, although I still see little benefit for my own personal purposes (I use my knives quite a bit, and I think it would have been better to stick with F, which gives me a very sharp edge and doesn't take long to sharpen up/touch up on). But I guess it's cool to know I've got a sharper edge
I use mine dry and rinse them with water and occasionally clean them with Barkeeper's friend. Water might or might not help; I just don't like to deal with the mess
And @ Knifenut: thanks for the pics.
Honestly, DMT Fine stone can be good enough for a beater knife. Some people actually prefer the toothy edge. I personally go all the way to DMT Extra-Extra fine, although I don't strop my beaters.
Knifenut produced yet another excellent set of pictures.
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Thanks Joe that means a lot.
Here's some others you might like.
A glamor shot at 1 micron
I decided to finish a bit further at 0.5 microns and here's a pic of that edge at 400x. Still needs a bit more for perfection but its sharp enough
David Martin
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I agree w/ Esav.THG,I've had that happen in sharpening.After sharpening on the fine the edge will cut and dig into my thumb nail.Go to the X-fine and it doesn't dig/grab the nail any longer but it does shave.So, as the edge becomes more polished it and loses its toothyness.Then I noticed as Esav said that X-fine sharpened edge will roll.It doesn't last at that degree of sharpness.Espically if you cut something hard like you said cardboard, will do it.So, you have to find the sweet spot w/ sharp.DM
The Mastiff
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Pretty amazing pictures. Whittling hairs and then some. Is that CPM D2? Do you find that it polishes better than plain ingot D2? To me it seems like it does, but I rarely ever take any D2 to those levels of polish. Joe
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Yep CPM-D2. Same here, both will polish but CPM-D2 polishes much better and the finished edge is much better. I usually don't polish it that much though but because of how it does polish so nice is was a good test subject for the photos. 1 micron seems to be a good stopping point going past that seems to over polish it too much, looses a lot of the bite/tooth.
The Mastiff
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I do the same with D2, with ingot D2 getting even lower grit finishes. Overpolishing may not help cutting but it sure does look pretty.
What are you finishing up CPM M4 at? It doesn't really seem to mind polished edges, or toothy edges. It does well with both IMO, but which do you prefer for general purpose EDC?
I'm really considering sending you an Osborne M4 PE for you to sharpen up when I get a bit of extra money. I've seen what you can do with M4. Joe
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I have a OCD problem with making things shiny but I could be happy with M4 at a DMT fine all the way up to 1/4 micron, its one of the sharpest steels I have ever worked with at any level. Your Osborne looks like a tough one to sharpen but I'm sure we could make it nice
To everyone that is having problems when getting a new finer DMT stone, Don't forget to take all the steps with the new stones that you use with your old ones. Once your scratch pattern is even use feather lite passes to refine the edge and remove the remaining burr. DMT stones cut so clean that at any grit you can have a edge with no burr as seen in previous pic's but you must work at it. Remember, lighter the better and using soap and water helps a lot, if your knife is not getting sharper with a finer stone then something is not being done correctly.
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Those are some great edges there nut.
I did have issues with my extra fine, it really takes breaking in. Now I follow up with Norton 4000/8000 waterstones. Edge trailing, then CrO stropping.
I don't get the results nut gets, but they are pretty fine IMHO.
I did have issues with my extra fine, it really takes breaking in. Now I follow up with Norton 4000/8000 waterstones. Edge trailing, then CrO stropping.
I don't get the results nut gets, but they are pretty fine IMHO.
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knifenut,
Your freehand ability is awesome. Care to share some freehand tips with us? How do you hold the angle so tight? My freehand bevels tend to be convex rather than flat.
18 years of practice.
The best tip I can give is to buy a mora it can teach you a lot.
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I have a OCD problem with making things shiny but I could be happy with M4 at a DMT fine all the way up to 1/4 micron, its one of the sharpest steels I have ever worked with at any level. Your Osborne looks like a tough one to sharpen but I'm sure we could make it nice
To everyone that is having problems when getting a new finer DMT stone, Don't forget to take all the steps with the new stones that you use with your old ones. Once your scratch pattern is even use feather lite passes to refine the edge and remove the remaining burr. DMT stones cut so clean that at any grit you can have a edge with no burr as seen in previous pic's but you must work at it. Remember, lighter the better and using soap and water helps a lot, if your knife is not getting sharper with a finer stone then something is not being done correctly.
My OCD makes me bring knives to .05 microns, but M4 takes the highest sharpness with it of any steel I've ever tried. Out of common folder steels ZDP and CPM D2 seem to like my OCD polishing sessions the most after M4. As you said with practice and proper technique straight off the stones there should be no burr. The great thing about M4 is it is just as happy taking a very sharp but toothy edge off of the DMT coarse (shaving without a hint of pulling at yoar arm and getting hair above the skin with my Krein custom) or going all the way out to .05 micron with just unreal sharpness progressing from stone to stone. I look at my knives at 100x when I sharpen (I would love to have your optics and camera gear!) and some steels just can't take an edge beyond a certain point as I believe carbides start tearing out or the steels just plain microchip, but M4, ZDP, and CPM D2 are all pretty good about getting a consistent, burr free edge with none of those tiny microchips or carbide tear outs I sometimes have seen.
Great tips on the soapy water with DMT X fine as well, and the tips on breaking in the stones along with letting people know the importance of very light passes to leave a burr free edge right off a stone. My DMT's and Shapton Glasstones are excellent about leaving burr free edges with proper technique, my ceramics are less forgiving but it is very possible unless I am using Super Blue, all hard M2, or sometimes ZDP where those ceramics will microchip or burr steels that are cleanly cut with diamonds or waterstones. Your 18 years experience allows you to make wonderfully pretty and sharp edges, where my 3 years of OCD gives my decent looking to sometimes pretty edges (i used to not care how the backbevel looked at ALL) that are usually pretty darned sharp, a lot of times in short order because of microbevels. I would love to see you try some Shapton Glasstones to compare to your DMT X fine and XX fine, as they are WAY better than any other waterstone I have tried, leave shiny finishes (I mean VERY shiny at 1.84 microns/8000 grit) on every steel I have tried, and shouldn't gouge or give you issues like some of the first waterstones I tried. I know you are a DMT guy to the core, but after listening to those with lots of experience (and they did proper, long break in periods) they said the DMT XX fine just can't match the better waterstones like glasstones for 8000 grit finish.
As always great pics, and I'd love to get some info on your photo optics and go off line via PM about our mutual microchipping issues on ceramics.
Mike
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Thanks mike, true the DMT XX-fine does not produce as good a finish as a 8000 grit waterstone but the level of sharpness from the xx-fine is out of this world. I would like to try one of those glasstones one day but I still need to complete my set of DMT's first, are the glasstones like a ceramic or a waterstone?
Surprisingly the camera I use is a kids toy, its called the Bionicam by eyeclops http://www.eyeclops.com/ its hard to get the pic's though I must use two flashlights on either side of the blade to get enough light. For the price and the quality of the pic's though its hard to beat.
The ceramic issue is crazy and I still can't grasp why it does it to some and not others of similar hardness. The only thing I can think of is that because of the hardness and density of the ceramic it causes the steel to fracture from harmonic vibration's. Kinda like throwing a peice of ceramic at a window
Shoot me a pm or give me a call, today's a slow day for me.
Surprisingly the camera I use is a kids toy, its called the Bionicam by eyeclops http://www.eyeclops.com/ its hard to get the pic's though I must use two flashlights on either side of the blade to get enough light. For the price and the quality of the pic's though its hard to beat.
The ceramic issue is crazy and I still can't grasp why it does it to some and not others of similar hardness. The only thing I can think of is that because of the hardness and density of the ceramic it causes the steel to fracture from harmonic vibration's. Kinda like throwing a peice of ceramic at a window
Shoot me a pm or give me a call, today's a slow day for me.
OK, then I only have 10-years to go! I can get good edges on the SharpMaker and the EdgePro, but my addiction is pushing me to freehand now. Some tips that I have read for holding the angle constant:
1. Go by the feel of the bevel gliding across the stone surface as opposed to when it cuts into the surface with too steep of an angle.
2. Pay attention to the height of the spine above the stone. (for example -Use a stack of coins as a guide.)
3. Watch the water move in front of the edge (on waterstones). Also watch water squirt out from under the bevel when it becomes flat against the stone
4. With large bevels you can feel a click when the bevel lays flat against the stone.
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Knifenut, I think the Glasstones are a ceramic waterstone, and they don't require any soaking. You just squirt on some water and go. They are very resistant to gouging and are very slow to dish. The finish and sharpness they leave is just great on every steel I've tried. I first bought a Norton combo stone that almost had me give up on waterstones because of gouging, dishing, and needing to be soaked. If you do get some waterstones the good thing is your DMT plates will flatten them out nicely. The cost of stones beyond 8000 grit is just too much for me when stropping or lapping films will get you the same edge. I think 8000 grit is a good stopping point as the edge is a perfectly clear mirror by then, so anything to 1 micron or less is just icing on the cake. In fact I usually slightly raise my angle at that point to get a bit wider final angle going to sub micron finishing as my 8000 grit edge is really plenty shiny and I am going for show off sharpness rather than looks at .05 micron. Last night I got to demonstrate finishes from 320 grit on a mini grip I sharpened for my mother in law (she didn't want it too sharp) to the .05 micron finish on my Stretch 2 to family. The DMT coarse easily push cut reciept paper and shaved smooth, but the .05 micron ZDP just whittled hair into dust. It was fun to demonstrate what different finishes can do, and show that if you are careful with your finishing strokes you can get burr free edges that push cut decently even at DMT Coarse. The .05 micron finish is way overkill, but going from person to person showing off hair whittling (it is so sharp it just severed the hair a lot and took care to get nice curls, most of which were tiny and a lot ended up on the blade looking like dust). I guess finally I got to really "show off" my show off edge.
I'll check out that camera link, and maybe I'll be able to start getting pictures to really see what my edges look like. The pictures you post of the edges are just great to see so you can track just how sharp you are actually getting your edges.
Mike
I'll check out that camera link, and maybe I'll be able to start getting pictures to really see what my edges look like. The pictures you post of the edges are just great to see so you can track just how sharp you are actually getting your edges.
Mike
