CBSA (Canadian border services agency) cracking down on folders entering Canada

If (and that’s a big if) the CBSA changed their import policy banning ALL imports of folding knives that change should be listed on paper or on a website somewhere, and so far the only evidence to support this claim is that video. I personally don’t believe there’s enough evidence to support this conclusion. I guess it’s only a matter of time until we discover the truth.
 
If (and that’s a big if) the CBSA changed their import policy banning ALL imports of folding knives that change should be listed on paper or on a website somewhere, and so far the only evidence to support this claim is that video. I personally don’t believe there’s enough evidence to support this conclusion. I guess it’s only a matter of time until we discover the truth.
Well, look like we're screwed, we're gonna have to keep pivot screws permanently jammed. Purchasing from the US, or any other free country, will be awfully complicated.

IMG_0167.png


Source: https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/cn-ad/cn18-01-eng.html
 
Look at the date, that’s five years ago… I’m sure we all got knives since then. It says nothing about “banning the import of all folding knives”.
 
Look at the date, that’s five years ago… I’m sure we all got knives since then. It says nothing about “banning the import of all folding knives”.
That's not what this discussion was about either. I suggest you reread the thread.
 
I thought I should chime in, given that I've worked at a knife retailer for the last several years, and have talked to several customers who have had their knives seized when attempting to place orders from international companies, state-side and elsewhere. Back when CBSA was being particularly problematic a few years ago, Kershaw and ZT products stopped being sent up, and most other manufacturers actually went to the trouble of tightening down pivot hardware, just like A Arathol and shane45-1911 shane45-1911 suggested doing now. However, this behavior actually stopped some time ago, and CBSA hasn't claimed anything that's been ordered in, though several similar if not identical knives have been reportedly seized.

So what's going on? It seems like individuals are being targeted as they place orders of their own, and their knives are being seized at the border regardless as to whether the same or similar is available within Canada already. Actually, there is quite a lot of appeals I found where the Tribunal shane45-1911 shane45-1911 mentioned earlier actually dismisses the notion that because similar knives are already commonly and publicly available for sale in Canada, the same should be allowed entry through the mail.

If we are to believe the information given in a transparency page supplied by the CBSA, they say they've stopped 2,091 centrifugally opening knives last year alone-- I have to wonder how many of those knives were actually available to purchase, legal to own and carry in Canada but were misattributed?

So, I actually posted this link a long time ago here in a different thread, but it's [what I believe to be] the most recently updated version of the Memorandum that outlines the official CBSA guidelines regarding knives, amongst other things-- you can read it for yourself here:
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d19/d19-13-2-eng.html

However, the relevant part for this discussion comes from how the CBSA chooses to interpret this following piece of the criminal code; again, this first snippet is Federal Law, and has remained relatively unchanged for many years now.

20. The definition of prohibited weapon is laid out explicitly in the Criminal Code subsection 84(1):
  • (a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife;

They then interpret the above as this:

"Paragraph (a)" weapons​


21. Weapons that fall under paragraph (a) include the following:


  • (a) Automatic knife – An automatic knife is one that houses a blade that will open automatically by applying hand pressure to a button, spring, lever, or other device, in or attached to the handle of the knife, including knives that have a button, spring, lever, or other device, located in the spine of the handle and attached to the inner part of the blade
  • Note: Knives that have a "thumb stud" attached to the blade of the knife, that is independent of the handle (not protruding from the handle in the closed or folded position), and that open automatically by applying pressure to the thumb stud, do not generally meet the above definition of a prohibited weapon, and as such do not generally fall under TI 9898.00.00. However, if such a knife is found to also open by gravity or by the application of centrifugal force (as per (b) centrifugal knife below) alone, it may still be considered to be prohibited.
  • (b) Centrifugal knife (folding knife, butterfly knife, balisong knife) – A centrifugal knife is one that has a blade that opens automatically by centrifugal force when the blade is released from the handle into the fully ejected and locked position with a simple and brisk outwardly flick of the wrist; and it includes knives that require some preliminary or simultaneous minimal manipulation of either a flipper, thumb stud or other non-edged parts of the blade
  • Centrifugal force may be defined as a force, arising from the body's inertia, which appears to act on a body moving in a circular path and is directed away from the centre around which the body is moving. That is, centrifugal force is established when the blade of the knife may be opened with a flick of the wrist
  • Note: That extra manipulation and a requirement for some skill to release the blade does not prevent a knife from being a prohibited weapon. For example balisong or butterfly knife which is a form of centrifugal knife with two handles that counter-rotate around the blade such that, when closed, the blade is concealed within grooves in the handles
  • (c) Gravity knife – A gravity knife is a knife which may be opened automatically by force of gravity. The knife may be additionally controlled by a lever or button, but typically, applying pressure to such a device and pointing the knife downward will result in the knife's blade releasing and locking into place

Did you catch that? Under (b)? The small line that is their stated reason for all this hassle is "...and it includes knives that require some preliminary or simultaneous minimal manipulation of either a flipper, thumb stud or other non-edged parts of the blade."

This is how they justify stopping simple thumb stud knives, or knives with flippers, or anything at all, really.

The criminal code of Canada does not specifically state how much force is required to allow a knife to be flicked open. Therefore, the CBSA has been granted "subordinate legislation" power to interpret the spirit or intent of the law. The CBSA can define what amount of force is required to deem if a knife may be opened by gravity assist.

Shane is exactly right. This is precisely why they can decide that gently pushing a thumb stud while swinging a knife in order to open it fully is issue enough to make the knife barred from import. It has NOTHING to do with the speed at which the knife opens, but specifically how it opens.

Meanwhile, the definition of "open" is left... unwritten. There is actually no precedent that I'm aware of that discusses at what point the knife is considered open. I would have assumed that even partially open, IE the blade's cutting edge is exposed, would count as open, but...

My guess is that the CBSA is leaving retailers alone these days because of a combination of the resulting bad optics, but targeting individuals to look productive in their own reporting.
 
That's what happen when stupid people try to criminalize commonly used objects rather than human behaviors. Definitons are vague, and can only be vague, leading to all sort of interpretation, confusion and misunderstanding.

Knives are used in millions of different, and necessary, task every day by millions of people. An infime portion of that is socially unacceptable, so why not legiferate on those socially unacceptable behavior, and leave inanimate objects alone? I think it's easy to agree that using an object to intimidate, hurt or maim somebody is unacceptable, they'd be no confusion there.

Honnestly, it's like we're run by people with the mental capacity of a retarded snails.
 
That's what happen when stupid people try to criminalize commonly used objects rather than human behaviors. Definitons are vague, and can only be vague, leading to all sort of interpretation, confusion and misunderstanding.

Knives are used in millions of different, and necessary, task every day by millions of people. An infime portion of that is socially unacceptable, so why not legiferate on those socially unacceptable behavior, and leave inanimate objects alone? I think it's easy to agree that using an object to intimidate, hurt or maim somebody is unacceptable, they'd be no confusion there.

Honnestly, it's like we're run by people with the mental capacity of a retarded snails.
If THAT gets you so chapped, you'd probably love this little inclusion from my CBSA link earlier;

19. Not all weapons are necessarily prohibited. Any weapon that is not specifically prohibited by law will generally be admissible.

The use of weapons in a violent manner to harm or threaten is absolutely against the law, but ownership of weapons is allowed. Go figure.
 
If THAT gets you so chapped, you'd probably love this little inclusion from my CBSA link earlier;



The use of weapons in a violent manner to harm or threaten is absolutely against the law, but ownership of weapons is allowed. Go figure.
I don't get, at all, where you're going with this post.

But just so I'm clear, an object become a weapon when it used, or intended to be used, as such. A baseball bat, or even a regular chair, can be weapons if used as such. Why regulating inanimate objects make no sense whatsoever, there is no end to it.

Do you honnestly think that the current knife law in Canada helped to prevent a single crime since it was voted? I don't put the bar very high, I'm talking a single as in 1.
 
I don't get, at all, where you're going with this post.
I was mostly referring to this somewhat ironic situation: as Canadians we are allowed to own weapons (things by their very design are made for humans to hurt each other) but the particulars in how a pocket knife opens (not how it's shaped or what it's designed to do) can make it illegal.

"Want a sword? Dagger, even firearms? Sure, there are legal means to do so. Oh, but that switchblade? Never mind the fact it opens no faster than that legal Cold Steel Ti-Lite, or that it has a shorter blade, it's just too dangerous to possess."

All that to say, I found it funny that the CBSA went out of their way to write out in their memorandum that weapons are not necessarily illegal to import.
But just so I'm clear, an object become a weapon when it used, or intended to be used, as such. A baseball bat, or even a regular chair, can be weapons if used as such. Why regulating inanimate objects make no sense whatsoever, there is no end to it.
Sure, but there is absolutely a definition for "Weapon" in the criminal code.
Do you honnestly think that the current knife law in Canada helped to prevent a single crime since it was voted? I don't put the bar very high, I'm talking a single as in 1.
That wasn't something I was arguing.
 
I thought I should chime in, given that I've worked at a knife retailer for the last several years, and have talked to several customers who have had their knives seized when attempting to place orders from international companies, state-side and elsewhere. Back when CBSA was being particularly problematic a few years ago, Kershaw and ZT products stopped being sent up, and most other manufacturers actually went to the trouble of tightening down pivot hardware, just like A Arathol and shane45-1911 shane45-1911 suggested doing now. However, this behavior actually stopped some time ago, and CBSA hasn't claimed anything that's been ordered in, though several similar if not identical knives have been reportedly seized.

So what's going on? It seems like individuals are being targeted as they place orders of their own, and their knives are being seized at the border regardless as to whether the same or similar is available within Canada already. Actually, there is quite a lot of appeals I found where the Tribunal shane45-1911 shane45-1911 mentioned earlier actually dismisses the notion that because similar knives are already commonly and publicly available for sale in Canada, the same should be allowed entry through the mail.

If we are to believe the information given in a transparency page supplied by the CBSA, they say they've stopped 2,091 centrifugally opening knives last year alone-- I have to wonder how many of those knives were actually available to purchase, legal to own and carry in Canada but were misattributed?

So, I actually posted this link a long time ago here in a different thread, but it's [what I believe to be] the most recently updated version of the Memorandum that outlines the official CBSA guidelines regarding knives, amongst other things-- you can read it for yourself here:
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d19/d19-13-2-eng.html

However, the relevant part for this discussion comes from how the CBSA chooses to interpret this following piece of the criminal code; again, this first snippet is Federal Law, and has remained relatively unchanged for many years now.



They then interpret the above as this:



Did you catch that? Under (b)? The small line that is their stated reason for all this hassle is "...and it includes knives that require some preliminary or simultaneous minimal manipulation of either a flipper, thumb stud or other non-edged parts of the blade."

This is how they justify stopping simple thumb stud knives, or knives with flippers, or anything at all, really.



Shane is exactly right. This is precisely why they can decide that gently pushing a thumb stud while swinging a knife in order to open it fully is issue enough to make the knife barred from import. It has NOTHING to do with the speed at which the knife opens, but specifically how it opens.

Meanwhile, the definition of "open" is left... unwritten. There is actually no precedent that I'm aware of that discusses at what point the knife is considered open. I would have assumed that even partially open, IE the blade's cutting edge is exposed, would count as open, but...

My guess is that the CBSA is leaving retailers alone these days because of a combination of the resulting bad optics, but targeting individuals to look productive in their own reporting.

Very informative post.



With the legal knives that I have heard of and know of that have been confiscated under this reason (personal not business), when talking to the receivers, I learned that they either lied about price/value or what was in the package.

Always state fixed blade or folding knife and full value. Pay the duties. Get your stuff. :) (usually)
 
Best hope for Canada in my opinion is to throw out your current government and elect one more friendly to things knife and gun related.

It never made sense to me that Canada’s knife and gun laws are standardized across the board for a country so big. It would make more sense if they were split up and varied by province and locality similar to how things are in the states.
 
Best hope for Canada in my opinion is to throw out your current government and elect one more friendly to things knife and gun related.

It never made sense to me that Canada’s knife and gun laws are standardized across the board for a country so big. It would make more sense if they were split up and varied by province and locality similar to how things are in the states.

That would be worse.
I hate having to know each state's laws when I go there. The knife that I can carry in Michigan can get me arrested in Chicago.
I don't want that headache here.

Once I know what the stupid laws currently are here, I know that the same stupid laws are in place across the whole land. No annoying surprises.
 
Best hope for Canada in my opinion is to throw out your current government and elect one more friendly to things knife and gun related.

It never made sense to me that Canada’s knife and gun laws are standardized across the board for a country so big. It would make more sense if they were split up and varied by province and locality similar to how things are in the states.
That would be worse.
I hate having to know each state's laws when I go there. The knife that I can carry in Michigan can get me arrested in Chicago.
I don't want that headache here.

Once I know what the stupid laws currently are here, I know that the same stupid laws are in place across the whole land. No annoying surprises.
I was going to say the same thing, essentially. I'd only add that, generally speaking, our knife laws as they are enacted within the country are fairly permissive.
 
Inside the country nobody cares.. its about Intent and common sense. Carry a survival knife on your hip in the cities and expect to get stares..maybe a Karen will call the cops but they act according to the situation.. No harm no foul it's literally as simple as that. There's a kid who walks to the park past my house to practice his sword skills with a full length Katana on his back.
 
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