I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Danny Trejo said:
Well, Dr. Larrin... a PhD in Metallurgy - WELL DONE!!

I loved your website and several other things I have read! Coming from a Metrologist to a Metallurgist - BRAVO!

How can I obtain a signed copy of your book??!! (I'm into books too)


Besides, this needed a...

Click to expand...
Message me through my website and I will give you my address to send a book for signing. I used to have a box full of them but it’s too much of a pain to deal with. :)
 
Wow. Thank you. Of course, the data presented is awesome. Beyond that, everything was very succinct, and the summaries were useful. Cheers.
 
Excellent piece and for those who don't want to buy huge amounts of knives to find the "best" steel extremely helpful as a reference for any knife/tool purchase!

I've used the charts so often I think I could recite them😁
 
Last edited:
Thank you for you carefully controlled and well-financed experiment. The findings are likely some of the most objective in the industry. I am a designer of precision electrical metrology instruments. Scientific researchers don't get much of a rise out of popular culture. Most people don't really know what 'steel' even is! They know it's heavy, strong metal that can corrode. And they're pretty much satisfied with that.

I need to know how everything works and why! Unfortunately, metallurgy hasn't revealed many of it's secrets, and trial and error is necessary to make advancements. I appreciate the controlled nature of your experiments, and checking for repeatability when observations are suspect!

The specific information is useful to determine that there are some clear losers, but no clear winners. The industry gets confortable with what it already knows, and doesn't necessarily want to learn how to work with new materials. If a high-quality knife is made with an outdated steel, it is undoubtedly because the maker is comfortable with that alloy, and isn't convined anything else will make enough of a difference to justify all the trouble of learning a new alloy! It is not necessarily due to superior results with the older steel!

My cousin is a materials engineer at a steel minimil (recycler), so I've picked his brain a few times over SMS. He designs alloys to correspond to what type of scrap they're working with at the time, and maximizing the value of the finished product. But I guarantee none of what he specifies goes for anything like $40/lb. I can't believe what they fetch for powdered steel! It must be a costly process!

I know how much dedication is required to avoid temptation to shortcuts, avoid unwarranted asumptions, never to say 'good enough'! You take your endeavors quite seriously. The soundness of the testing is also impressive.

Bravo on a job well done! I have one question, what is TCC supposed to indicate! Is it a measure of toughness vs hardness. I can't figure it out from the equation. Thanks for all the help.
 
awesome14 said:
I have one question, what is TCC supposed to indicate! Is it a measure of toughness vs hardness. I can't figure it out from the equation. Thanks for all the help.
Click to expand...
After 120 strokes (60 back and forth “cycles”) the test is complete and the total amount of paper is added up, called the Total Cardstock Cut (TCC) reported in mm
Click to expand...
 
Ok, thanks. So you derived the linear equation. Brilliant. I'll program it into my calculator program, Droid48, the HP48 emulator.
 
awesome14 said:
Ok, thanks. So you derived the linear equation. Brilliant. I'll program it into my calculator program, Droid48, the HP48 emulator.
Click to expand...

abrasion resistance, that's about it. Soft card (nothing putting lateral or hammering forces on a blade), abrasive material, slicing. But excellent standardized results that correlate well with real world use at least in cases where toughness isn't an issue.
 
Abrasion resistance is a property directly related to more basic material properties, such as hardness. But there's a few other tricks going on. I think I figured out why Buck Knives ship with a rough edge. It's the sawtooth phenomenon. They're criticized for not finishing the edge, but the research demonstrates--all other things being equal--a polished edge performs worse than a rough edge.

So, it appears Buck Knives is a bit ahead of the rest of us.
 
It was a great test and statement. Congratulations. I just joined you today by the way. :) However, there is one thing I am wondering about. Maybe I missed the pages, I'm not sure but I still want to ask. I wonder where Lam.Cos steel is in this list?
 
I am a worker of a company. structural engineers australia needs to buy some knives. Can you provide it?
 
Last edited:
Such a valuable resource. So much interesting data.

Makes me appreciate some steels more than consensus, like D2 and 440C and the 8Cr/9Cr steels. Also tempers my enthusiasm for some, like a lot the mid-range "super steels."

One thing I've learned from experience over the years is that I care more about the blade geometry and grind than the steel, pretty cool to see that born out so clearly in your testing. Spending some money on a regrind seems like a much better use of money than upgrading to a model with different steel a lot of the time as far as improved edge retention goes.
 
I have just 1 question...
Which steel is easy to heat treat well, but has good edge retention?
I mean, which one is best for a beginner.
thanks!

-Little Grey Wolf Forge
 
LittleGreyWolfForge said:
I have just 1 question...
Which steel is easy to heat treat well, but has good edge retention?
I mean, which one is best for a beginner.
thanks!

-Little Grey Wolf Forge
Click to expand...
If you have a furnace and can follow a data sheet they are all easy.
 
Hi Larrin Larrin ...I have been hiding under a rock and just discovered who you are. Been catching up on some reading of this and your post from last year...Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist – Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance

What surprised me most of all of this was how good LC200N and 14C28N performed on toughness, as long as the user enjoys stropping or sharpening a little more than s30v/35vn.

I wonder why the trend is for seeking blades that can do 10k cuts on rope, while sacrificing toughness. Might as well use a piece of glass or ceramic knife instead of s110V or M390/204p/20cv

PS I have the Salt Native 5 Magnacut on preorder. Spyderco Sal Glesser Sal Glesser and team are prob best oem regards to heat treat. I wonder what the hrc will be for Spyderco Magnacut.

Screenshot_20220817-080755_Firefox.jpg
 
Most testing results that people pay attention to are cardboard or rope cutting so that is the metric by which they compare steels. Comparing toughness is somewhat more challenging.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top