I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Larrin said:
Maybe the higher hardness is more desirable for avoiding deformation than it needs the extra wear resistance. Or maybe it’s placebo. I will say many Blue Super kitchen knives have chipping issues.
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Larrin, do you have a article about PM60 superclean? If not, what are we thinking about it, similar to Maxamet? Thanks!
 
Greetings to one and all! After what amounted to a several day ordeal, I was able to log onto this web site. Other than that, I'm doing well and ready to participate in these conversations. I'll be back soon, and thanks in advance for your hospitality.
 
x number of years from now, I expect another study that rejects or verifies a lot of this data.

Oh, my knives will still work irregardless!

Though, I still want to know this information. Because.

What's the best toppings on a pizza again?
 
Chronovore said:
Obviously, heat treatment matters. Lots of companies seem to run 14C28N on the softer side, like 55-58. Luckily, it doesn't seem to take as big of a hit on edge retention from being run a little soft versus M390, S35VN, etc. Lots of production knives in super steels have a target range of 58-60HRC, which is already on the low side for their optimal edge retention. Sometimes, they come in below that target range (and there can be other issues). So if you are comparing the average budget knife in 14C28N and the average $150ish production knife in S35VN or M390 with the respective edge retention ratings for those steels; the super steels tend to fall far short of expectation while the 14C28N may be surprisingly okay by contrast.
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Yes, that is my experience in casual comparisons of 14C28N (a 3 in Larrin's tests) with steels such as S35VN (a 5 in Larrin's tests). For example, a Ruike Hornet seems close to a Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter. Or maybe I'm rougher on the Ultimate Hunter after seeing Joe X.

It would be fun to have a hardness tester.
 
Larrin, thanks for all of the information you put out there. I've read so many of your articles and watched your YouTube videos. I'm currently reading your book and learning so much, it's very interesting. And thanks for Magnacut!

Cheers,
Mike
 
Dr. Thomas,
Your work is detailed, informative, and quite extensive. Mostly, it is HIGHLY appreciated and very interesting for a non-maker as I am. I never cease to be impressed and amazed at the variations, creativity, and dedication of the knife makers on this and many other sites who offer up production efforts of their collective genius in varying shapes, steels, and finishing techniques, all of which can benefit from your 'knifesteelnerds' website, dozens of articles, and 2 books (hopefully more coming!). Your collective works are the foundation of all that knifemaker creativity that they rely upon and you are to be applauded by all for this monumental and ongoing effort. Your aforementioned website is chock full of advice, guidance, and paths to information and is a compendium of experience and experiment.

Thank you for Magnacut steel and these 2 tomes of excellence, one of which I have just purchased on Amazon. Great work, lad! Kudos to you at the highest level. Can't wait to start reading the "The Story of Knife Steel: Innovators Behind Modern Damascus and Supersteels".

PS: As an author in a space different than yours, I endorse your use of citations ... especially the creative and serial way you chose to stop at your lucky number!
 
I tested one of my 5160 blades batoning it through a 3/4 Bolt 3 times and the edge never chipped or rolled and remained just as sharp as it was before the test ~ is this what you would call edge retention ~ I'm not sure on the terminology ~ although I see you never mentioned 5160 at all ~ I myself was surprised what carbon steel can do and that I thought it was pretty amazing ~ myself
 
J's~Pioneer Style Knives~ said:
I tested one of my 5160 blades batoning it through a 3/4 Bolt 3 times and the edge never chipped or rolled and remained just as sharp as it was before the test ~ is this what you would call edge retention ~ I'm not sure on the terminology ~ although I see you never mentioned 5160 at all ~ I myself was surprised what carbon steel can do and that I thought it was pretty amazing ~ myself
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With appropriate geometry you can do all sorts of interesting things. When people talk about slicing edge retention they mostly speak of wear resistance, but of course in general whatever makes the edge duller, be it chipping, deformation, wear, corrosion play a role in what end users perceive as general edge retention.
 
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Larrin said:
Recently I was able to acquire a used CATRA machine, so I heat treated just about every knife steel I had, made 57 knives with the help of knifemaker Shawn Houston, and tested them all to see which cut the longest. For a few of the steels I did multiple heat treatments to look at a couple variables and to see the effect of hardness. I also compared edge retention and toughness to see which steels have the best balance of properties. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/
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You’re the man 🫡
 
Another Shepherd said:
Yes, that is my experience in casual comparisons of 14C28N (a 3 in Larrin's tests) with steels such as S35VN (a 5 in Larrin's tests). For example, a Ruike Hornet seems close to a Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter. Or maybe I'm rougher on the Ultimate Hunter after seeing Joe X.

It would be fun to have a hardness tester.
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That’s one of the great things about 14c and why it’s a great budget steel. Honestly, I seek out knives in 14c28n and Nitro V and prefer those two over most premiums steels. Luckily for me, that also means the knives usually don’t break the bank.
 
jstn said:
That’s one of the great things about 14c and why it’s a great budget steel. Honestly, I seek out knives in 14c28n and Nitro V and prefer those two over most premiums steels. Luckily for me, that also means the knives usually don’t break the bank.
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Remember again that heat treatment matters. Just because a steel is capable of amazing edge retention, and scores highly with Larrin's heat treatment under his testing conditions, does not mean that it will be the same in a production knife under your personal use conditions. For instance, 14C28N with a very good heat treatment versus S35VN with a much less good heat treatment can be closer than people might expect.

I'm not a metallurgist but it seems to me that some steels are easier to get right, do better in mass-production heat treatment, or are less sensitive to issues in heat treatment. For instance, the 14C28N I've had closer to 60HRC is pretty good. The 14C28N I've had closer to 56HRC doesn't seem to take as hard a nosedive as M390 does when run soft. (Hardness isn't everything but it is something.) Maybe Larrin Larrin could talk a bit more about this?
 
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