Knock-Off, Counterfeit, Fake Bucks & The Americans Who Sell Them

Fakes/counterfeit without question. Shameful. If you direct the seller to this thread perhaps you can open their eyes to the truth.
 
oregon said:
Fakes/counterfeit without question. Shameful. If you direct the seller to this thread perhaps you can open their eyes to the truth.
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I have sent the seller a mail, including the link to this thread. Hopefully he just was not aware his knives are counterfeits and he stops selling them.
 
Excellent approach immer. Thank you kindly,

This Buck forum is moderated by Buck. The knives shown above are known fake/counterfeit. Not made by Buck. Not authorized by Buck.
 
Well, the seller did not respond. However I noticed he removed some knives (probably sold) and put new knives for sale on the auction site (marktplaats.nl).

The Buck he is offering now (http://link.marktplaats.nl/703295057) is fake I believe.
$T2eC16RHJG8FGsMU7Hb+BR+!ElZk6w~~60_84.JPG


He is also offering fake Bokers, a fake Smith&Wesson and a fake SOG. The text he wrote for the fake SOG (http://link.marktplaats.nl/703322246) is interesting. It's in Dutch, so I've translated it:

own import from America, due to the whining of certain people (who by the way never bought a knife from me) I let the knife tested by a seller of weapons and knives, the lady told me I bought a genuine knife, she could only see it was an American knife, that had to do with the opening, reassuring, especially for myself.
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So, it's good he tested the knife, but I'm not quite sure about the expertise of this lady... Well, it's a knife we know for sure now.

The original text in case you know any Dutch :)
eigen import uit Amerika, door het gezeur van bepaalde mensen (die overigens nog nooit bij mij een mes hebben aangeschaft)heb ik het mes zonder verpakking laten testen door een verkoper van wapens, en ook messen, de mevrouw zei dat ik een echt mes had aangeschaft, ze kon alleen zien dat het een Amerikaans mes was, dat had te maken met het openen, een gerusstelling, vooral voor mijzelf.
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Well, my conversations with him seem to have some result... The Buck knife is removed (I hope it was not sold...) and he changed the description of the SOG knife to:

own import from America, due to the whining of certain people (who by the way never bought a knife from me) who think that due the price this is replica, okay, then it is a replica, but a super good one.
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But I still think all other knives he is offering are fake as well: http://www.marktplaats.nl/verkopers/19314458.html
 
This morning I mailed a couple of times with the guy selling the fake knives I started posting here. He still claims he does nothing wrong. Actually, according to him he consulted a "police friend", claiming I was punishable because I warned him he was selling fake knives and thus fraudulent. That would be a strange police officer... not knowing selling fake articles is illegal.

But he did change some of his texts... The buck knife for example is now a "model Buck" (http://link.marktplaats.nl/703423375), although the picture of course still shows a "Buck" knife....
 
This is a warning, not a threat, they will have to deal with me. Have the police officer contact me.

All pic show fakes/counterfeits.

Good work my friend. Good work. Kick @ the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
 
I wonder what effect it would have if someone were to purchase one or two of these fakes, then relist them on the bay as "fake/counterfiet Buck knife".
It would then likely sit beside the other ones in a search and raise question in a customers mind, hopefully.
 
at the 25th it was mentioned that a possible law being passed
to prohibit selling fake or counterfeits items on the inter net in the usa
might be passed which hopefully will cut down on a lot of the local cheats
 
This is a great thread, very informative to a newbie, and thank you all.
Thanks to this thread I now know the eBay knife I was just about to buy for a too-good-to-be-true price is definitely a fake.

I'm new to knives, but as a collector in other fields I have acquired a healthy respect for the skills of the Chinese at brazenly producing fakes. Our government agencies do almost nothing to police or stop it. That's not from lack of manpower or funding or naivete, the non-enforcement is part of our govt's pro-China policy from the highest levels on down.
That policy is not likely to change anytime soon, so it looks like the fakes and outright counterfeits (not just of knives but of any USA-made product) on eBay are here to stay for the foreseeable future.
It's good to email individual sellers, but as long as Chinese factories and online distributors are cranking these out, it's playing whack-a-mole because there's always going to be a line of new guys anxious to sell them online, as well as the factories themselves selling them through various alias names.
Google-able threads like this one, with excellent photos included, are a great way (for now maybe the ONLY way) of educating the consumer, like myself, as to how to distinguish the fake vs the real thing.
 
Tallahassee said:
This is a great thread, very informative to a newbie, and thank you all.
Thanks to this thread I now know the eBay knife I was just about to buy for a too-good-to-be-true price is definitely a fake.

I'm new to knives, but as a collector in other fields I have acquired a healthy respect for the skills of the Chinese at brazenly producing fakes. Our government agencies do almost nothing to police or stop it. That's not from lack of manpower or funding or naivete, the non-enforcement is part of our govt's pro-China policy from the highest levels on down.
That policy is not likely to change anytime soon, so it looks like the fakes and outright counterfeits (not just of knives but of any USA-made product) on eBay are here to stay for the foreseeable future.
It's good to email individual sellers, but as long as Chinese factories and online distributors are cranking these out, it's playing whack-a-mole because there's always going to be a line of new guys anxious to sell them online, as well as the factories themselves selling them through various alias names.
Google-able threads like this one, with excellent photos included, are a great way (for now maybe the ONLY way) of educating the consumer, like myself, as to how to distinguish the fake vs the real thing.
Click to expand...

This is not the political forum. If it were, I'd ask where you get your misinformation on comparative funding for trademark and counterfeit goods enforcement over the last couple of decades.
 
Thomas, I'm new here, and I'm not here on BF to have some long counterpoint on the politics of counterfeit sporting goods enforcement on eBay.
If it's your belief that counterfeits of American brand name items flourish on eBay (and Amazon, which also has many third party vendors in need of policing) because the Feds just don't have enough lawyers sitting in cubicles in DC to send out cease-and-desist letters to eBay's management (for example), then you are welcome to your worldview.

I stand by my statement that emailing individual mom-and-pop resellers to educate them is well and good, but that until we see effective systemwide enforcement, there will always be a fresh stream of willing resellers/middlemen popping up to resell what the predominantly Chinese-based factories are cranking out, on eBay and elsewhere.
That's true for any brand-name-valued product that can be knocked off or counterfeited cheaply, whether Buck knives or Rolex watches. Economics 101.

My point is that threads like this one, which clearly identify fakes with excellent photos and helpful commentary, are a very valuable education to consumers like myself. My thanks to all those who started and contribute to this thread and others like it.
 
I just wondered if your statements of fact had some basis in fact.

ePrey will clean up only at the point of a "gun."

If you enjoy fairy tales:
Why do counterfeits hurt the community?
eBay is committed to preventing the sale of counterfeit products because:

It's illegal and harmful to the marketplace
Buying a counterfeit is a bad experience for you and the brands you trust
Counterfeits undermine buying trust
It's bad for honest sellers who deal in authentic merchandise

What are we doing to prevent counterfeit listings?

We're constantly working to make our site safer by:

Proactively removing suspicious items
Removing items reported as counterfeit by brand owners
Working closely with law enforcement to prosecute offenders
Enforcing selling limits on some items
Restricting seller activity in certain categories
Providing free tools for rights owners to efficiently identify and report items to us for immediate removal
Partnering with brand owners and industry initiatives to bring attention to and combat the issue worldwide
What can you do to help?
eBay users:

Don't buy or sell counterfeit goods
Learn about the law and our policies
Report suspicious goods by clicking on the "Report this Item" link at the bottom of the listing
Pay for your purchases using PayPal
Do you suspect that you bought a counterfeit?

Warn others by leaving honest feedback
If you paid with PayPal, file a claim for Buyer Protection
Rights owners:

Participate in the Verified Rights Owner Program
Create a Verified Rights Owner "About Me" page
Click to expand...

As for reality (from first page of Google search for counterfeit goods enforcement (1,290,000 hits):
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1006/100611washingtondc2.htm
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com...ents-target-vendors-selling-counterfeit-items
http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
http://agjimhood.com/index.php/pres...terfeit_goods_and_disburses_seized_cash_to_as
 
Interesting idea, st8yd. When I was looking at a different fake Buck listing, which I wound up NOT buying due to finding this thread, finding search results like your suggestion would have been helpful.

There's one seller on eBay whose approach seems refreshingly honest. He sells a $19 knockoff "-style" copy of the $50-ish Ontario 499 USAF Survival Knife, but with a side-by-side photo showing the knockoff he sells directly alongside the authentic 499 so the potential buyer can immediately see (and learn) the difference. It's immediately obvious where and how the knockoff differs, where the quality and build are skimped on the knockoff, and he makes no attempt to misrepresent the knockoff as the real thing--no counterfeit marks, no false brand stamps, etc. That side-by-side photo educates a lot of people, I expect. Once you see the side-by-side photo you won't be fooled by other knockoff listings.
Good for him. And if you do buy from him you know upfront you're getting a knockoff.
 
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For what it's worth given enforcement, knowingly selling a counterfeit item is a federal crime. Not sure how admitting it's a counterfeit would help. Maybe.

If it's ePrey, how about buy; file claim w/ PayPal; give negative feedback; refuse to pay return shipping.
 
That eBay tactic has been suggested, and I would like to know how it has worked for those who've tried it. I like the idea of holding them accountable.

There's some distinction (legally if not ethically) between an outright counterfeit (a fake 'Rolex', or a fake Vanguard with 'Buck' stamps and deceptive eBay descriptions in a fake Buck box) and a lookalike 'knockoff' that copies or imitates a pattern but doesn't pretend to actually be an authentical original (Mtech's copies of various other makers' designs, but clearly branded as 'Mtech'). Counterfeiting is obviously criminal; imitating is a grey zone and a civil dispute.

After absorbing all the many threads on this subject, I'm amazed at how many outright counterfeits I can now recognize on eBay.

The financial press has written a lot of articles these last few years on Chinese business ethics and culture as contributors to counterfeiting and intellectual property theft. Worth the time to google. An important factor is that the same Chinese factories/vendors who are contracted to turn out the 'authentic' outsourced USA-brand products--whether knives or Apple iPhone charger cords--are often the source of the 'counterfeits'. A licensed factory makes 5,000 of X product for X company in the USA as contracted during the morning shift, then the afternoon shift cranks out another 500, or 100,000, identical run of product X to resell themselves, maybe under the US company's brand, maybe under a Chinese shell brand name, undercutting the US company's prices. The 'authentic' factories themselves are often the culprits, and with the full (unofficial) approval of the Chinese authorities, who welcome the jobs and the tax revenues.
That's a huge problem for US electronics companies who have their tech produced in China. That flood of cheap Apple-branded iPhone chargers and accessories all over eBay are not being faked by Mom and Pop at their kitchen table in Shanghai.
What surprises me about the knife industry and the Chinese fakes is the apparent profit margin in counterfeiting a $40 knife and selling it, shipping included, for $10.
 
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