new way to make non-rotating throws

Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
29
I am wondering if anyone else throws knives the way that I do. I invented a way to balance and grip a knife so that it can be thrown without rotation for about fifteen or twenty feet, even with smaller knives. From what I have observed, it is much easier to learn than rotating throws and also allows you to do lots of things you just can't do with a rotating knife, like throw from any range you like or any arm angle, just like you would a ball. I actually wrote a book about this subject that was recently published, but I am afraid to mention it, since the last time I did so in this forum my message was deleted. I guess this was because it was considered commercial. I haven't been able to get in touch with anyone who could give me permission; hopefully this will be cleared up soon. Regardless, I am interested to know what others think of this. I know there have been other methods for non-rotating throws created, but I don't think any of them resemble mine...(incidentally, there has been some confusion created by some of my statements in the book, where I was very critical of rotating throwing as a self-defense tool. Some people took this to be a criticism of recreational rotating throwing, which was not my intention. I also invented a way to make rotating throws, underhanded, at long ranges--I have made 70 foot throws and can fairly consistently get sticks from 50 feet with a big enough target. I have nothing whatsoever against rotating throws as recreation; I do this style of throwing all the time.)
 
Originally posted by ralph thorn
I have made 70 foot throws and can fairly consistently get sticks from 50 feet with a big enough target.

Fifty feet, without a rotation? What sort of penetration do you get with this method at various ranges?

Do you think it's your accuracy or the accuracy of the method that requires a large target for the long range throws?

I'd also like information about the book.

burke@suncoastnetworks.org
 
I'd like to make clear that I don't make fifty-foot throws without rotation. I use a single rotation for any throw over about 25 feet, (according to the size of the knife--I use knives anywhere from nine inches to twenty plus inches), and I always throw rotating throws underhand, with the plane of the blade vertical, using a different grip that to my knowledge is also my invention. As for penetration, this varies according to the particular knife and the target. I always keep my knife points just barely sharp enough to stick in consistently, since I throw so hard and from so many angles that if I keep them very sharp they'll break a lot more often.
 
Ralph, If you wish to sell your book here at BladeForums you have to get a membership that will allow you to do so. Then you will have to find a catagory in the Exchange forum to post your items for sale. You may discuss anything you wish about your style in this forum. If you want additional credibility you might also put your email address in your profile. By mentioning your book in nearly every post on the different forums you give the impression that you are here only to sell your book. I would like to see a copy of your book ,but I cannot find it in the first link that you posted. Email me with your info about the book and I may buy one. You can also come to South Carolina to our National Championships and show us your style in person. You can find more info in the news and Updates section on my site. What part of the country are your from??

Good luck

Bobby
 
I must confess that you are correct--I have developed a bad habit of mentioning my book every other breath when I am talking about knife throwing, and not just on these forums. Partly this is because I feel a responsiblity to my publisher to help them make their investment back on it (most books lose money and nobody is going to get rich off of a book about knife throwing, in any event), but mostly because it just seems impossible to explain what I do in a few words. In fact, I wrote the thirty thousand words in the book and made the 23 illustrations (I do professional artwork) thinking I'd never have to explain anything about knife throwing again, and just the opposite has happened! I do apologize if anyone takes offense. I wish I could just post the book on the internet so that people could respond to it that way, but this, again, simply wouldn't be fair to my publisher, or probably even legal for that matter.
 
Can you email me about the book? I'd be interested, but I don't want you to step over any rules...


(emails in my profile)
 
What little I know about Shuriken-jutsu, I've found these images.

Here's non-rotating throw using slide along palm and finger.
nagedasi.gif


and using this kinf of shuriken
kikaku.gif


practitioners are said to achieve this
meihufsyatei.gif


ralph, does this throw resemble yours?

If you're interested in more info, I'll try to translate what they say.
 
The question of whether what I do resembles the palm throw is the one I have had to respond to most often. The answer is no.
I first discovered the palm grip when researching my book. This type of throw has evidently been independently discovered and rediscovered numerous times-- a Russian, and some Americans and Far Easterners all have some claims to having invented it. From what I have read about it, and from my own limited experience with it, this throw is very clumsy and hard to learn. I also don't think that it could produce very much velocity, certainly not if it has the arcing flight pattern in the illustration you provide.
My style involves moving the hand more towards the back of the knife, not the center. From everything I have observed my style is not only easier to learn than the palm throw, but also much easier to learn than conventional rotating throws. And my style allows you to throw harder than conventional throwing, not less hard; and I believe it would give a much quicker and surer release than a palm grip.
Only time will tell if I am proven correct. But if enough people try my style and devote enough practice to it, I am confident that all my claims will be publicly substantiated. So don't just take my word for anything, give it a try--you might be glad you did!
 
Okay, the method is written in the book, and you cannnot mention it...
Maybe, answering this question will do no harm both BF rules and your book. What type of knife fit your style most? Palm throwing requires smooth, nail like shape. Some non-sliding palm throwers have fat, heavy tip than others. Does your throwing work EQUALLY with all kind of knives, or is there any preference for some type?
 
I make my own throwing knives from many kinds of knife blades or other similar objects. I prefer sword blades, bayonet blades, or regular throwing knives. I wrap tape around them to balance them for throwing in my style, but this is not always absolutely necessary, it just makes it much easier to learn and makes for better performance. My knives are anywhere from nine inches long to over twenty inches long and come in many shapes and sizes. In my style it is preferable to have more weight in the back end of the knife, not the front end. The most important thing about my style is the grips I use, one for throwing overhand, one for throwing underhand. Hopefully more people will try my style and come up with a better way of describing my grips than I have been able to in these forums. In the book I was able to make illustrations of my grips, which made it simple to explain.
 
Twenty inches of knife, holding the very end, and trow it without rotating? Sounds quite unique! I couldn't get any clue to go deeper.
 
I should probably point out that it easier, not harder, to throw longer knives without rotation. In fact, I first learned to throw this way in my early teens using sword blades that were probabably about two feet long. With a long knife like this and a roll of duct tape or electrical tape to add weight to key points on the handle, you might be able to hit on some new styles of knife throwing yourself. (I evidently invented at least two new throws this way.) Why not experiment and find out?
 
Ralph "your" book sounds great.. "your" throwing techniques sound interesting. But how come I cant go to a web site and find out more about "your" book. Will Bf not display your web address, or have you not listed it by choice?
Thanks .Bob M of frontier forge works
 
I don't have my own website, and I didn't list my e-mail address under my profile because I don't necessarily check it all the time, and in any event I would prefer to use this public forum to respond to questions, since that way I don't have to answer the same questions over and over. Bladeforums does not allow overtly commercial messages to users unless they pay for the special service that allows you to sell things. If you would like independent reviews or descriptions of my book on the internet, you could check out one of the other knife-throwing forum websites, which you could find with a search engine, or do a book search for my name on one of those big internet bookstores. Also, if you'd like I'll be happy to send you a personal e-mail with more information.
 
Ralph,

As moderator, I usually do not usually intervene as Bobby does a good job in that respect.

Commercialism can be overt and in your face, such as a used car salesman. It can also be more subtle, as in having a rather constant and repetitious presence such as displayed here.

I think all are now aware of your "new method" and your publication on the subject. Continued subtle belaboring of the publication would move this thread into the overt marketing realm.
 
Thanks Tim,
I've given Ralph every opportunity to do the right thing. I've even a asked for a email address so that I could possibly purchase a copy of the book.I have even asked him what part of the country he lives in and invited him to my Nation event to show his method to a group of professional knife throwers. Someone who does not want to put out any personal information, but wants my money scares me.

Bobby
 
Respectfully, gentlemen, you have some serious misconceptions.
First: to me, there are two kinds of knife throwing, recreational and self-defense. What I do is the latter. The bulk of my methods are aimed at martial artists, knife fighters and lay people who don’t yet know anything about knife throwing. These will certainly constitute the majority of my audience. I also do some freestyle recreational throwing, juggling, and the like, but this is secondary. Nothing I do has much in common with the usual accuracy contests and circus tricks. Those things simply don’t interest me. For these reasons, experienced conventional knife throwers, such as the people who use this site are, to me, a peripheral market; and in any event these are the people already the most likely look for new things on knife throwing without any prodding from me. If I were primarily interested in commerce I would be far better served to invest my time in activities other than making internet postings on knife-throwing chat sites or sending out individual e-mails to interested parties.
Second, “Ralph Thorn” is a pen name. Like the majority of authors in my field, I prefer to remain anonymous. I do not have any current plans to reveal my geographical location, attend any public events, or post an e-mail address, even though these things would obviously make it easier to sell things (if that were my primary intention), because it would defeat the purpose of writing under a pen name.
Third, from my point of view I have only barely been guilty of overt soliciting. Every posting I have made since the original thread starter has been either a specific response to a question or remark, or to clear up something I thought could be misconceived. As is this one. I initiate little but try to be thorough in my responses.
Why, then, have I taken time to maintain this limited public presence via chat sites? The main reason is simple. My writing style is intended as humorous, but sometimes in a polemical way. I don’t always bother to hide my annoyance with some statements others have made about knife throwing that I know to be false, such as the idea that it is more difficult or even impossible to throw knives without rotation. I have therefore sometimes been perceived as “arrogant” in my dismissals of rotating knife throwing as a self-defense tool; I’ve even been accused of trying to alienate conventional knife throwers. This was not my intention, but in retrospect I should have made this more clear in some of my early statements. While I tread a very different turf than usual knife throwers, it would be counterproductive for all involved if I were to refuse to at least attempt to reach out to conventional hobbyists. The success of my style does not depend on the regular areas of knife throwing, nor do experienced hobbyists and performers require my style for anything. We might not really need each other, but perhaps we can work together to expand the sport, not diminish it with what outsiders would perceive as in-fighting, if indeed they cared at all. That is my intention and my hope, and my motivation in keeping up with this site. As far as I am concerned this matter is closed. I will, with your indulgence, continue to try to provide any interested parties who have specific questions or requests for information with whatever they ask for, but having made the above statements I see no reason to initiate anything new in this forum. I have tried to offer something new and to make peace with those who prefer the old, and nothing else, from my point of view, is necessary here any longer.
 
I learned to throw in `94. I was taught a method of no rotation at close range and one rotation at longer ranges. I was taught by Bob Taylor of REKAT. He has been throwing this way for many years.
 
I find this intriguing and it raises some interesting questions. I don't know what the acronym REKAT stands for. Was this self-defense oriented knife throwing? Is it your opinion that only non-rotating throws are useful in combat situtations? Could you throw from multiple arm angles, by which I mean overhand, underhand, and sidearm? Did you balance the knives especially for non-rotating throws? What kind of knives were used? Were you taught the palm grip, or something else?
 
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