new way to make non-rotating throws

Ralph,

REKAT , Round Eye knife and Tool. The Hobbit Warrior is one of his knives.

Yes , self defense throwing. We held the blades by the handle just as you would if you were trying to chop something with the knife. Longer one rotation throws were held by the blade.

He taught overhand and sidearm to us , he could do others but we only worked on those two during the class.

As far as what I belive works in combat? I have not been there so I don`t know for sure but past 15 to 20 feet I don`t think you are going to throw into anyone unless they have their back to you. It isn`t that hard to sidestep away from a thrown blade if there is some distance between you and the thrower.

He didn`t believe in using balanced throwing knives , we used several different knives as well as things like screwdrivers. His belief was that if you only practiced with one knife you were limiting yourself. He taught us to practice with as many different sizes and weights as possible.

Bob Taylor was the teacher of the class , I believe he was the Martial Arts editor for SOF for several years. He was in on the design of the Al Mar Warrior knife. He has videos with TRS that I have seen advertised also. He has a couple in the latest issue of SOF in the TRS ad.

I would be interested in checking out your book also , where can I find it?
 
If it is possible to make non-rotating throws using a standard "hatchet" grip and using any old knife, this is a new method that needs to be better publicized. I haven't encountered it before and I've looked.
What percentage of sticks would you say you can get at, say, twelve feet using this method? How hard do the knives hit the target? The only thing that makes me wonder about this method, without knowing anything about it, is that you might have to qualify as a knife-throwing genius to do it with any effectiveness. Personally I try to make knife throwing as easy as possible, which is why I prefer to use specially balanced knives at least in the learning stage, though like your teacher I like them to be in as many shapes and sizes as possible. This builds confidence and consistency. Later on it is possible to improvise and throw poorly balanced knives and other objects fairly effectively.
In reference to your final question, I won't comment any more on any commercial products as I have been repeatedly reprimanded by the moderators for doing so. Look over previous postings on this thread for further information on this and other topics.
Like you, I think combat range for a knife thrower is inside fifteen or so feet, for the reasons you mention. While after twenty years of practice I can make effective, hard-hitting one-rotation underhand throws anywhere between, say, fifteen and thirty-five feet, depending on the size of the knife, I don't think rotating throws are useful in self-defense because, if a target is moving unpredictably, it is just a matter of luck whether you hit it point-first. Useful for assasination, maybe, but not hand combat. By the way, if you were using a blade grip for a rotating throw it must have been a one-half rotation, correct?
 
check out www.trsdirect.com , Bob is on the front page at the top left.

The handle throws we did were close range (probably less than 10ft.), blade throws I would say you are correct in saying half rotation. We were getting around 80-90% as long as we were practicing several times a week but percentages fell off quickly if we slacked off.

He took a bear by throwing a knife so I think penetration is there if done correctly. He used a WWI bayonet , one of those long ones used for trench warfare.

I`m not claiming this or any other method is best , I throw heavy at times and then don`t throw at all for months. I am far from any type of expert on blades.

I will check out your book, thanks.
 
Hi

I have purchased Ralphs book and I have yet to make a knife for this style but it looks interesting.

Similar to James Keatings Gamblers style but you modify the knife also.

I have the following books / videos

throwing the bowie- James Keating

making it stick- Michael Janich

knife throwing for sport, survival and defense- Blackie Collins

the fundementals of knife, hawk, and axe throwing- the great Throwdini

recreational knife throwing- John Bailey

knife throwing- Harry McEvoy

shuriken throwing- Shirakami

ninja knife throwing- Michael Peters

ninja shuriken throwing- Michael Peters

You know what I think would be cool? If all these people would get together and make a video from their materials

I almost think that if I had Bobby Branton in my back pocket and a day in my shop we could come up with a knife and style that would put knife throwing ahead quite a bit. Oh Bobby bring Lee as well please.

Knifesmith
 
Maybe we can get you down to my shop;) The AKTA championships is a months away. It would be a good time to experiment.
I am interested in seeing Ralphs method and I still think that he could sell more books if he could demonstrate his method. Most people will catch on better if it is demonstrated.
 
Shoot

I may have the solution.

Ralph cant talk about it cause then he is tryin ta sell stuff

Me I bought the book and I dont get a thin dime from it so if I talk about it its not sellin.

Only worries I have are copyright. If I talk on it and show stuff from it am I breakin copyrights?


Little help please

Knifesmith
 
He can discuss the contents in the book as much as he would like. This is a discussion forum. He just can not keep telling everyone that he has a book for sale and where to go to get it. He has done that a few times , so we know that now. I think he has the message and I do not want to seem like we are beating up on him about it. I will probably order the book, but I'd like to see someone demonstrate it some of the basic techniques at our contest. he could probably sell 25 copies to people who love the sport. We are more than "Circus throwers" as he refers to us. That is really a very small part of the sport.
 
First, if anybody has killed a bear by throwing a knife, somebody needs to start a knife throwing hall of fame just to put him in it. Mauser bayonet blades are my very favorite knives and they can do awesome damage, but I’m not going bear hunting with one anytime soon.
Of course the percentage of sticks depends on lots of factors, but with my style it’s so easy to hit things point first from inside ten or twelve feet that I don’t think you’d experience nearly the dropoff or need nearly the practice to maintain that 80 or 90 percent level. I’d almost bet I could go six months without throwing and do ninety percent left-handed, if I didn’t have to worry too much about accuracy or power. That’s one of the reasons I think my style can eventually help to expand the sport even at the recreational level, if anything can. Most people, probably me included, just don’t have the skill or the patience to learn conventional throwing, and by making it easier to get sticks you broaden the fan base. Another aspect of my style, that makes it visually appealing, is that it allows you to make mobile, improvisational throws. When I was younger and a lot more athletic, I was almost like these skateboard kids, always looking to create some goofy new trick involving jumping, juggling, and the like. For instance, I can still flip a knife into the air around my back, do a 360 degree spin jump, catch the knife while I’m in midair and then put it into a target a few feet away as I’m landing. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that kind of thing would be very difficult with any other style, right?
Bobby: don’t order the book just yet. I told my publisher weeks ago to send you a free review copy, which you would qualify for as a representative of Bladeforums, but I was told that this was actually done back in June or July. Afterwards this all slipped my mind. Somewhere there should already be a copy waiting on you. If you do read it, try to remember that it’s just my personality to be argumentative and to poke fun at things, including myself, and that it’s a lot easier to get things published when they attract attention by being controversial and provocative, especially with my publisher. I don’t apologize for correcting some misconceptions about knife throwing in my book, but as you suggest I may have some misconceptions of my own about “circus throwing”, and it wouldn’t be fair if I didn’t make myself available to have the “circus throwers” be able to return my arguments and poke fun at me right back, which I don’t mind a bit. Poke away! I think taking sides and debating is very healthy, as long as its done in the right spirit. It’s hard to research knife throwing via books, the internet and so on, and if I have bad information then I need to know about it, so if the book goes into new editions I can correct them. (For example, I realize now that I had heard of this bear-killers video, but I got bad info about it--something had told me that he was a palm thrower.) I agree that ten minutes of seeing someone throw live is better than all the words in the world, but right now the only realistic way I see to solve this would be for me to make a video of my own.
Regarding commercial ventures: by the time a book is in print the author has ordinarily already made all the money from it that he ever will, in the form of his advance. Publishers make all or almost all of the money from books already in print. I have a feeling that knife-making is where the real money would be anyway, and that’s not my specialty. I’d bet one of you guys could easily put together a knife that could be thrown in my style right out of the box. Just throwing out an idea, I would be willing to set up a joint venture, even organized as a nonprofit, for the purpose of making knives and providing instructions that in combination would make it easier to get sticks with right away, in order to help expand the sport to where we would all like it to be. Knife throwing as an “extreme sport”! How does that sound?
 
The bear kill was a test of a combat technique. Penetration tests were done first in comparison to a bow and arrow , he was able to equal the bow so the hunting test was carried out. Dogs were used to corner the bear just as if a bow was being used. I would expect tests of this type by someone claiming a viable combat technique. I didn`t say he jumped out of a helicopter in Alaska looking for a Kodiak Grizzly by himself.

Now if someone was claiming a sport technique I would expect him to throw the knife up from behind his back , jump into a 360 spin , catch the knife and hit a target on the way down before touching the ground. Now was your book about self defense or sport throwing?



If I claim a percentage of hits , power and accuracy always count , just as in a self defense situation. I could shoot 100% with my 1911 after 20 years off if power and accuracy didn`t count. Accuracy , power and speed always count.
 
Of course accuracy and especially velocity always count. I was simply using a little anecdotal evidence to support my contention that it is easy to get knives to hit point-first using my style. The point I was trying to make, which I should have made much clearer, is that I am not left-handed. I only started throwing with my left hand several months ago, and I have hardly devoted any practice time to left-handed throws. I often take many months off and still hit with power and accuracy right-handed the first time I pick my knives up again. The only real reasons I would ever fail to hit anything point-first right handed would be lack of concentration or trying an extremely difficult throw.
I don't know what relationship cornering an animal and then sticking a knife into it has with hand-to-hand combat with another human being, although I guess it does provide some useful information as to the penetration of a knife into flesh, but a cadaver test on a human would have been even better. The most important tests I carried out involved seeing whether I could hit an opponent in mock knife combat with harmless objects by throwing them at him. I already knew what would happen if I hit someone with a knife I had thrown, even one thrown at less than full velocity.
What I do is self-defense oriented, but when you play with knives all the time from childhood you learn lots of little recreational tricks, like the one I described. This has never been my main focus, although if there were enough interest I might do something describing these in greater detail sometime.
 
Since it's easier to throw knives with heavier handles with your method, do folders work well? Durability aside, of course.
 
I haven't ever seen a folder that I think would work very well, but some might exist. I would think they would have to be lockblades, and certainly very big.
 
Hi All

I was just in my basement trying something

I took one of my knives and set it up like Ralph says to do in his book using duct tape on the handle.

I threw the knife overhand from 8-10 feet about 10 times and probably stuck it 7 times with no or very little rotation.

The key thing is this, I used a knife just a little over 7" long

I wonder what I could do with a 12" knife

See ya
Knifesmith
 
I am very pleased to hear you were sticking 70 percent immediately with a knife that small. Either you have a high talent level or were throwing a good sharp knife at a nice soft target, or maybe both. A year ago, when I first started throwing left handed, I would bet I would have been hard pressed to stick 70 percent from ten feet myself (with my left hand, that is), with a knife that small.
With a 12 inch knife it wouldn't surprise me at all if you hit over 90 percent right away. The bigger the knife, the better.
I use what I do left-handed to compare myself to other people because I have so little experience throwing ambidextrously and am a beginner myself left-handed. It took me a couple of months of throwing probably an average of 10 or 15 minutes a day left handed to really get good power and range, and confidence I could stick any throw. I'd bet that by spring, if you throw a little every day, you'll be amazed at what you can do, even with knives that small. But I do recommend you get bigger knives. It just makes everything easier.
 
Hi

Thanks

I plan on making longer knives later
My target is made of 2x4s
the knife is pointed

I will let ya know how it turns out

BTW Ralph email me will ya? I lost your address

Knifesmith
 
my arnis teacher tried to teach us 1-turn handle-launched and half-turn (blade-launched) along with a no-turn overhand blade launch and an underhand throw. in all cases, we used the marine k-bar and local replicas of it. he said throwing was basically an offensive technique which is harder to do than generally thought when squaring off with a skilled fighter (this calls for a real defensive throw).

in the last situation, a no-turn overhand or underhand would work best but you had better keep an adequate distance from your opponent. throwing a knife at a charging guy can be dicey. a heavy knive or a hatchet will help but you had better have a back-up weapon at hand.
 
I am a beginner knife thrower and I have ordered your book from Amazon. I was looking for a starter set of knives and came across these, would the 9" version work well with your method without the need for the tape? also, I have an all metal dagger with a heavy handle, might that work/ What is the best balance point for a knife with your method? Thanks!

http://www.bladeuniverse.com/Knives/Throwing/Adjustable_Weighted_Throwing_Knives.shtml
 
Hi,

Without knowing the shape, weight, and so on of the knife, I couldn't say for sure, but nine inches should be long enough. I have been pleasantly surprised recently with reports of good results with knives even smaller than that, but I still think it's easier to learn with larger knives.
I also think it is easier to learn with a handle that you have balanced yourself, and the easiest way to do that is to put tape on it. This process gives you a feel for the different ways knives behave when they are balanced in various spots, and I think that knowledge really improves your throwing. With that said, it is quite possible to throw knives or even other objects using my method without specially balancing them at all. And yes, a knife with a heavy handle can work really great without taping it. I have an eight-inch hunting knife my uncle made for me that is a great spear-style thrower, without any tape. The only drawback is that throwing nicer knives will beat them up really quickly, so it's still better to learn with junk knives, in my opinion.
The balance point for a knife intended to be thrown spear style, or underhanded and rotating in my style, is about one-third from the back of the handle. (Actually, if this is not too far out in left field, I think the exact measurement is probably given by a mathematical function called the "golden section". But don't worry about that!) Anyway, it doesn't have to be exactly perfect. Just heavier in the handle end than the blade end.

RT
 
I think you would find that those are too light ( tho I like light knives )

I have a friend who makes good knives for about 20 bucks I can hook you up if you like

Knifesmith
 
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