The Fighting Knife in modern warfare

J

jacknife

Joined
Jan 3, 2001
Messages
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The question I'd like to put is, just how much use is a fighting knife in modern warfare?
OK, dispatching sentries maybe, but how often is that likely to happen? I can see a great need for having a knife of some kind when on active service and it would be a good idea if it could do double duty as a fighter if the need arose, but a pure out and out fighter like the FS type knife?.....well I'm not sure. The bayonet could serve in both roles if necessary though most bayonets are not my idea of a GOOD knife. The Ka-bar is a legend, but just how much did it get used (for fighting) in WW2 and Nam? Any good stories?
Your opinions please.


Welcome to BF Greg.
 
Do you think that killing a sentinel with a knife is the best way to go?
In my mind, a rifle with a noise suppressor is much more adequate...
 
Originally posted by Oc'zhaal
Do you think that killing a sentinel with a knife is the best way to go?
In my mind, a rifle with a noise suppressor is much more adequate...
Click to expand...

But what if they were to shout out when shot?

With a knife I believe the usual method is to cover their mouth with one hand while pulling the head back, then either cutting the throat (and vocal cords) or thrusting the blade into the side of the neck.
This all assumes you could get close enough, but it would be the most quiet option I would think.
 
Sir

According to recent reports from Afganistan there was knife usage just last week in the mountains when the CIA - Spec Ops were clearing caves.
There wasnt much mentioned yet however the Lt. Col who spoke to the press did say that there was close combat and cold steel was used in H2H to dispatch the enemy.

Being that I am involved with the knife industry in an intimate way I do recieve a good bit of info back from my current students who are in the military and from other Bando instructors who also have students in the military about knife usage. To tell you the truth it haint happening all that much!

Most peridiocals want us to believe that the only way to know if a certain knife is worthy is if a Spec Operator is using it in combat. Well I can speak with fact that there is few but far between true fighting knives issued in the United States Military. The units that we know of that actually offer knives to their troops is usually only the close knit special force personal such as the 160th group-Seals-Delta-some Rangers-Special Forces-Force-Recon-Path Finders etc.

KA-BAR Knives Inc. has no known contract with any branch of any military force in United States that is purchusing their product to issue. The known companies that do have Mil-Spec GSA Contract #s is Ontario and Emerson. Emerson is fortunate is that he can make from 1-1000 special order knives.

As far as stories that KA-BAR knives were involved with in Vietnam and other wars-battles-conflicts? Whew!! There are thousands. One good source is Hock Hockheims recent knife defense book. He lists stories of actual knife fighting with a fighting knife.

Kbar @usabando.com

:cool:
 
I've been told that major advancements in suppressed firearms have largely precluded use of the knife as a sentry removal tool.
 
KA-BAR. Thank you for your reply Sir.

I too have heard of reports of hand to hand fighting in Afganistan, but this is often an expression used incorrectly to suggest close quarter fighting with firearms rather than actual hand/knife fighting.
After all, if you get to within a few feet, are you going to throw your M16 aside and use your knife?
You are in a better position than I to know the truth of these reports and I thank you for the information.
I am not in any way disputing that knife fighting happens in warfare, I am only interested to know, from those most likely to know, just how often, and in what circumstances.
The Taliban are noted for using their knives alot, but only on captured prisoners. It would be nice to think a few of them felt some
cold steel in combat.
 
SM-24
You might well be right, but what advance in design can stop the sentry from yelling? Good shot placement would help I suppose, and it depends how far they are away from help.
 
knives are also valued companions during down time when in the rear areas. Some units make you turn in the firearms to the armorer. There are always muggings,rapes, and murders in these areas because locals(those who you're defending)and even other troops know you are disarmed.
 
The SAS team in Bravo Two Zero planned to use their knives during a few dramas, but fate allowed them to escape undetected for the moment. Yes, there are silencers, but you can't always get them for your mission when you are being deployed rapidly and in large numbers (demand exceeds supply).
Desert Storm was large deployment for the SAS and they didn't have the time to plan their supplies as well as they would have liked, so enter the Fairbairn-Sykes commando dagger.
 
Back when I was in the infantry in Germany ( 64-67 ) the officers and noncoms were just terrified that we might have any personal weapons when out in the field. We were told in no uncertain terms not to take any "big" knives. My 5" hunting knife was forbidden!
This while we were all toting all manner of military weapons, including bayonets, entrenching tools, and so forth...
Go figure.
 
I am not a knowlegdeable military tactition, but it seems that the ideal weaponry for true close quarters combat would be a handgun and a fighting knife. The knife to keep the enemy beyond arms length and the handgun to shoot them with. Or perhaps the handgun to knock the enemy down through his kevlar, and the knife to finish the job.
 
Depends.

I do know this.

When you need it, you need it.

And if you don't have it, life sucks.

If the other guy has one, life sucks even more.

Better to have and deliver than to be without and get nuked.

Note: Salvadorn recon sergeant I met years ago in that country during the war had dispatched 17 enemy fighters with a WW1 Mauser bayonet. This over 2 or 3 year period of fighting. One of his soldiers told me about him. When I approached him on the subject he was very modest. Offered he'd only done his job and at the time the knife was the best weapon to use. I handled his old Mauser bayonet, and offered to trade him a fine Gerber fighting knife for it. He smiled, shook his head, thanked me, and said "No, mine is good enough."

Guess that about says it all, yes?
 
Originally posted by Oc'zhaal
Do you think that killing a sentinel with a knife is the best way to go?
In my mind, a rifle with a noise suppressor is much more adequate...
Click to expand...

A rifle cartridge will still make the "sonic boom". I think that they prefer subsonic pistol cartridges fired through supressed SMGs and sidearms.
 
Originally posted by Steve Harvey
I am not a knowlegdeable military tactition, but it seems that the ideal weaponry for true close quarters combat would be a handgun and a fighting knife. The knife to keep the enemy beyond arms length and the handgun to shoot them with. Or perhaps the handgun to knock the enemy down through his kevlar, and the knife to finish the job.
Click to expand...

Steve, I'm not a military tactician either, but I know it's not possible to knock people down with the impact from handgun rounds (contrary to what Hollywood would make us believe). It's really a matter of Physics; if a cartridge was that powerful, it would have the same effect on the shooter. To shoot someone down, you need to cause massive blood loss and consequent shock, or damage the central nervous system, or even break certain bones such as the femur (though that wouldn't necessarily put them out of combat).
We're excluding possible and unpredictable psychological factors here, of course.

Regards,

Leo
 
I handled his old Mauser bayonet, and offered to trade him a fine Gerber fighting knife for it. He smiled, shook his head, thanked me, and said "No, mine is good enough."
Click to expand...


Absolutely.

I have a buddy who works in close proximity to various members of narcotic ridden human filth on a daily basis. His issue pistol is a Glock, but he carries a chopped down M-1 Garand bayonet for close in work, even in this day and age of 700.00 dollar wonder knives. Simple is better, and steel is steel. It may not look cool, or chop pumkins with just one swing on a display table, but it will do the job every time.
 
Of the very few knives I now own and carry the one that I've taken perhaps the most time to work on and with is the German WW2 Mauser bayonet I picked up several years ago.

For $35 or so dollars with original stamped steel scabbard.

Had it rehandled and professionally sharpened, then fine honed the edge myself. Still have available for carry in the original steel scabbard. Great for slipping behind a belt, in a boot, or behind a vest or harness.

Learned something from that Sal sergeant.

The Garand bayonet is a very good piece of steel. It does need to be shortened for handheld H2H work, and again a professional sharpening job does wonders. As the late Al Mar told me in our SOF interview of so many years ago, if a bayonet is all you have for a fighting knife...sharpen it to the finest edge you are capable of obtaining...learn how to properly use it (H2H training)...and use it ONLY for H2H.

And it will serve you well.

Skill + Steel = Survival

Don't overcomplicate what is a very simple equation when it comes to fighting knives:D
 
Nice picture.
I've got the same bayonet but minus the sawback hanging above my bed. My father bought a box of old wooden woodworking planes, and the bayonet was clipped inside the lid. It's a pity you can't often find the history behind how they were "Liberated"
 
That's serious steel there, brothers.

I replaced the very well worn wood grip panels on mine. The steel is superb and hones up nicely after some edge geometery work by good friend and master knife craftsman Woody Woodcock.

I'll now probably send up to our Sheathmaster on the forum's shop for custom Kydex work.

Okay, who's going to kick off the bayonet thread?:)
 
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