The New SURVIVE!

Oyster said:
Do you (or anyone else) have an explanation for the rather curious (to me, anyway) situation that the SK and GSO versions of the 6 are being offered at the same price? (The SK version is on "sale" for an insignificant $13 less).
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Super curious situation. I'll start by saying nobody really knows what to expect, myself included.

With that out of the way I expect the differences to be:

GSO-world famous fit and finish with a wider selection of steel, handle and sheath options at the expense of waiting a long time to get it.

SK-unkown (but still good) fit and finish with limited materials and (I pray to the entire Greek pantheon) a much faster turn around.

I interpret this as "paying" for the better product line with your time rather than money.

As S!K gets caught up as they plan on doing, the wait won't be as much of a difference, the quality control and options will be.
 
Silver Needle said:
Super curious situation. I'll start by saying nobody really knows what to expect, myself included.

With that out of the way I expect the differences to be:

GSO-world famous fit and finish with a wider selection of steel, handle and sheath options at the expense of waiting a long time to get it.

SK-unkown (but still good) fit and finish with limited materials and (I pray to the entire Greek pantheon) a much faster turn around.

I interpret this as "paying" for the better product line with your time rather than money.

As S!K gets caught up as they plan on doing, the wait won't be as much of a difference, the quality control and options will be.
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Thanks, SN.
It's an unusual (strange?) model.
We'll see. Right now I've got orders for an SK 6 and a GSO 3.5. It'll be interesting to watch the production schedule in the coming weeks/months.

I ordered the SK 6 in the hope that it might be ready before the GSO version. Based on nothing but speculation at this point.
 
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Oyster said:
Thanks, SN.
It's an unusual (strange?) model.
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I agree :D

We'll see. Right now I've got orders for an SK 6 and a GSO 3.5. It'll be interesting to watch the production schedule in the coming weeks/months.
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Yes it will! I'm really anxious to see what happens and hopeful that it makes our favorite company and us fans all a little more sane.

I ordered the SK 6 in the hope that it might be ready before the GSO version. Based on nothing but speculation at this point.
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I did the same :thumbsup:
 
Oyster said:
Do you (or anyone else) have an explanation for the rather curious (to me, anyway) situation that the SK and GSO versions of the 6 are being offered at the same price? (The SK version is on "sale" for an insignificant $13 less).
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SN did a good job with his reply above. I'm going to throw one more thought out there, and it's strictly my best guess.

Guy has consistently been anti-price increase. I think the SK line reflects what he can sell for and still turn a profit on the production model, there's no more profit margin if they were to drop the retail price on those. As you pointed out, it's not much different than what he's charging for the premium line. That is at least some evidence as to the value of a GSO. IMO, one of the better values in the fixed blade world, provided that you can get your hands on them. If there is a change in the gap between the SKs and the GSOs, then I'm going to guess it will be due to an increase in the price of the GSO line. I just don't see how it could go differently, although I've been wrong before, and could be on this.

But since the biggest gain of buying a production line blade over the GSO is a time savings, not so much a monetary savings, it's going to be a wait-and-see game as to how much shift there'll be. People are going to be torn over which to buy, just like you described. I hope we see those initial SK lines cranking out with high quality and reasonable delivery. If that happens, then there should be some blue sky ahead.
 
Hard Knocks said:
SN did a good job with his reply above. I'm going to throw one more thought out there, and it's strictly my best guess.

Guy has consistently been anti-price increase. I think the SK line reflects what he can sell for and still turn a profit on the production model, there's no more profit margin if they were to drop the retail price on those. As you pointed out, it's not much different than what he's charging for the premium line. That is at least some evidence as to the value of a GSO. IMO, one of the better values in the fixed blade world, provided that you can get your hands on them. If there is a change in the gap between the SKs and the GSOs, then I'm going to guess it will be due to an increase in the price of the GSO line. I just don't see how it could go differently, although I've been wrong before, and could be on this.

But since the biggest gain of buying a production line blade over the GSO is a time savings, not so much a monetary savings, it's going to be a wait-and-see game as to how much shift there'll be. People are going to be torn over which to buy, just like you described. I hope we see those initial SK lines cranking out with high quality and reasonable delivery. If that happens, then there should be some blue sky ahead.
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:thumbsup::thumbsup:


The part that I bolded I think may have been stated straight up at some point by Ellie. I'd have to read through their website, but I think you're absolutely right, HK.
 
I recall the conversation going the way that HK and Silver stated.
When asked Ellie indicated that the SK line is priced where it needs to be, and that the GSO line is going to see a price increase at some point.
But, as HK said, Guy really doesn't want to price his knives so high that they become collector pieces and don't get used, so they haven't raised the GSO prices yet.
 
Oyster said:
Thanks, SN.
It's an unusual (strange?) model.
We'll see. Right now I've got orders for an SK 6 and a GSO 3.5. It'll be interesting to watch the production schedule in the coming weeks/months.
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Fancier said:
I recall the conversation going the way that HK and Silver stated.
When asked Ellie indicated that the SK line is priced where it needs to be, and that the GSO line is going to see a price increase at some point.
But, as HK said, Guy really doesn't want to price his knives so high that they become collector pieces and don't get used, so they haven't raised the GSO prices yet.
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I'm new to S!K so I'm not very familiar with the history or past discussions.
Thanks to everyone who replied. It's making more sense now.
 
Oyster said:
I'm new to S!K so I'm not very familiar with the history or past discussions.
Thanks to everyone who replied. It's making more sense now.
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No worries. The business model can kind of be like a living, changing organism. It's a learning experience for the new and the old dudes.
 
Fancier said:
As I understand the new plan Survive will only retain a fraction of each production run of the blades and other materials for each model.
The rest of the production run will go to an outside contractor to finish and assemble and will be sold as the SK line.
Survive won't be spending time reworking materials to make the grade for firsts and then selling seconds and uglies from the rest.
The Survive shop will only work on GSO knives from the best materials from each run, and there will be a lot fewer GSO knives sold in the future.
The SK line will be the majority of the knives sold by Survive and there won't be any Survive shop time required on SK knives.
Under this business model the demand for the GSO line isn't going to decrease, but instead fewer GSO knives will be made so that the Survive shop isn't overloaded.
The GSO will be the harder to obtain premium line with all of the hand fitted detail, and the SK line will be the higher volume production versions.
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I dont see that as much if an improvement in the situation considering the GSO line. Right now they are priced well but have a long wait. If production numbers decrease then the wait time might decrease but the availability will dry up. They will still be unavailable for purchase as demand over reaches suppy. I just dont see why people feel happy about this move. I am happy to see Survive! attempting to find a solution. I just dont see that this will improve things if you want a GSO. If you want a SK line then it should help.

I am not trying to be negative. Maybe i am really just overlooking some thing.

Do you guys really think that the 2nds and ugly Betty are really taking up that much time? I would think that maybr something like 10% of there blades or less become 2nds. But i dont really know much about manufacturing.

The GSO line is top quality, top level materials and top level fit and finish. I like nice knives so if i want a Survive that is what i would be going for. I think most people on this web sight will want the same. All i am saying i am skeptical it will help us with availability to the GSO line. I hope i am wrong.
 
It's demand slowing everything down, driven by a great product priced well below it's value. No way a 2-3 person team can get it all done quicker than they already are...only so many hours in the day.
 
ndmiller said:
It's demand slowing everything down, driven by a great product priced well below it's value. No way a 2-3 person team can get it all done quicker than they already are...only so many hours in the day.
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Assuming the GSO's are what the pictures and reviews promise, I agree that they are extremely well-priced.
Others have expressed their belief that we will probably see an increase in price for the GSO line while the SK line will likely remain at current levels.
The 3.5 in 20CV that I ordered will serve as my primary blade, which is why I opted for all the refinements of the GSO line. The 6 I have on order is intended as a hard use tool for bigger/rougher tasks so I decided to give the SK line a try. I expect to be very happy with both.
Point is, I think there is a market for both - not only for different customers but for individual customers as well and depending on the purpose the knife is supposed to fulfill.
 
rc51kid said:
I dont see that as much if an improvement in the situation considering the GSO line. Right now they are priced well but have a long wait. If production numbers decrease then the wait time might decrease but the availability will dry up. They will still be unavailable for purchase as demand over reaches suppy. I just dont see why people feel happy about this move. I am happy to see Survive! attempting to find a solution. I just dont see that this will improve things if you want a GSO. If you want a SK line then it should help.

I am not trying to be negative. Maybe i am really just overlooking some thing.

Do you guys really think that the 2nds and ugly Betty are really taking up that much time? I would think that maybr something like 10% of there blades or less become 2nds. But i dont really know much about manufacturing.

The GSO line is top quality, top level materials and top level fit and finish. I like nice knives so if i want a Survive that is what i would be going for. I think most people on this web sight will want the same. All i am saying i am skeptical it will help us with availability to the GSO line. I hope i am wrong.
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You're right about seconds and uglies, but there were also presale knives that were sold right before starting production and then more factory firsts sold after the preorders and presales. We'll get to see first hand how things will change in the coming weeks and months.

It will also be interesting to see how demand for GSO vs SK turns out. There are those people who really do want maximum fit and finish for their money, but I'd bet there's also a large number of folks who would appreciate a stone washed finish with plain micarta with a less than lightsaber edge with a fast turn around time.
 
Silver Needle said:
You're right about seconds and uglies, but there were also presale knives that were sold right before starting production and then more factory firsts sold after the preorders and presales. We'll get to see first hand how things will change in the coming weeks and months.

It will also be interesting to see how demand for GSO vs SK turns out. There are those people who really do want maximum fit and finish for their money, but I'd bet there's also a large number of folks who would appreciate a stone washed finish with plain micarta with a less than lightsaber edge with a fast turn around time.
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Yiur right it will be interesting to see how it goes. I hope it works out in a profitable way for Survive! so they can invest in continuing to produce the GSO at top quality. I really enjoy the GSO knive. I would be happy to pay a little more, not a lot more but see even more options in the GSO line like different grinds and so on.

Moatly i hope they can get to where they are only selling what they have on hand made. I think that would go along way to help there buisness image.
 
I think that it is inevitable that the GSO knives are going to be harder to buy in the future.
I don't see demand for them dropping as long as the quality standard holds up, and top quality is one of their ongoing stated goals for the GSO line.
If they stop spending a lot of time reworking seconds and uglies the total number of GSO knives produced is going to decrease.
Look at it this way though, if you want a Survive knife and have the choice of waiting an indeterminate amount of time for a GSO or buying a very similar SK item that ships immediately, which one is the average consumer going to purchase? Once SK knives are in stock I think that they are going to become extremely popular. :thumbsup:
 
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