This is a shame!!!

Joined
Jun 17, 2000
Messages
262
I never shared much but I really enjoyed this forum and the information posted. Its a shame it had to come to this. Sierra912 I hope you will still post at Bladeforums. Your knowledge is very welcomed by me and many others I am sure.
 
I am severely disappointed. This was one of my favorite forums and I am very sad to see Greg leave. Greg all the best to you and I hope that we will still have a chance to hear your words of widom...somewhere.

Good luck,

S.
 
Yes, it is a shame.

Greg was convicted without a trial, and all sorts of "evil motivations" were attached to his behavior in deleting threads. Greg very clearly explained that he did not know the Bladeforums house rules. That was the only reason he deleted stuff.

Early on, he emailed me privately to ask me how to work some of the moderator functions, and he GOOFED a few times innocently, as he learned what is what. And emailed again to ask me how to fix it. Greg is an older fart (sorry Greg -- meant as a compliment ;)) who spent his time in the FIELD, and isn't so schooled in the art of online technology as the others are. Nobody gave him a chance to experience the learning curve. I should have told him the BFC rules on that stuff, but didn't. My bad, too. Greg has been an editor of magazines, etc. I think he was doing what comes naturally.

When his views on gun ownership didn't match exactly everyone else's here, then he was automatically lynched for everything else he said and did, and a lot of people missed good information. The paper the second amendment was written on flew up in your faces and you couldn't see anything else. He posted some controversial things to get people to think critically, but that was too much for people -- they just took the words and twisted them and attacked the man who wrote them. It was too taxing to think carefully and offer a counter-point. They are just words, folks. You could've used them to expand your thoughts and solidify them. He was trying to provoke you to STRENGTHEN YOUR POSITIONS! DUH! Sheesh!

They call what happened here "witch hunts." Some of you vilified a guy who reached the pinnacle of military training, and bled in battle so that you can actually HAVE THE FREEDOM to state your points of view, and who continues to be a front-line warrior -- so you can CONTINUE to have those views. If it weren't for guys like Greg, we'd be speaking another language in America. You'd be in forced labor camps instead of sitting on yer butts, frittering away the hours online.

So, I have one thing to say to you: you are schmucks. When you've done more than Greg has done for our country, when you put yourselves in danger behind enemy lines without support like he has done -- then maybe you can attack him without being a hypocrite and an idiot. Get up off of your asses, turn off your computers, and go do something productive. Frankly, I find it amazing that so many people take the online world so seriously. Real life has its rewards -- if you're not too afraid to live it. I can't believe that people take so much stock in words on a screen. By no means am I diminshing or devaluing what Spark has built here -- this is a great medium for communications, but abused so often.

Some of the criticism that was levied came from some of Greg's brothers on the front lines in law enforcement. I never saw him disrespect anyone else on the front lines -- not once. His criticisms were directed at the REMFs who do budgets and politics -- and it was support for better training that he advocated. You guys are the same damn side, remember???!!!

People read insults into things he said that were not there. There was a lot of overreacting going on.

Now, unfortunately or not, the subject of CQB, self-defense et al is a very serious matter, so we are all passionate about it -- so many arguments that start get way out of hand. I've been guilty of same, too. But no matter how much I might disagree with something posted, I always put it in perspective. I stick to my own training as it suits me and don't feel the need to press my views like an a$$hole on everyone else. And if someone wants to push theirs on me, I politely listen, then use what's good and simply discard what isn't. THe reason I can do that is because I TRAIN. But I guarantee that the only "training" a lot of the people online here get is from typing and reading. Not experiencing. The lack of real-world experience is very evident in a lot of the pontificating, "expert" posts around here. Usually a paraphrase of something someone else mistakenly posted and pontificated on.

And re-read -- I said a LOT, not everyone. If you feel angry at this statement and feel the need to do an angry post in retort, ask yourself why it scrapes the bone, and ask yourself if your name was attached to my statement. No names were mentioned. If you feel it was you, then you know it does apply. So be angry at yourself.

It's this kind of crap that causes the real-world operators with excellent knowledge, when they are invited to host a forum, to leave. No wonder they choose to be quiet professionals -- they don't have deal with lazy people who just don't friggin' get it. That's why you gotta train with these people in person. They are busy honing their tactical skills, while others just spend time becoming better at typing on keyboard.

First Chris Caracci, now Greg. Who's next? You have f*cked up twice now.

Brian.
 
I never contributed to this forum, but I did catch some of the more recent shyte directed at Greg in a few topics. I started following these later threads and can only say one thing: what a bunch of dildos.

Brian, your post was courageous and very well-said. Having less than the most popular of opinions will quite often get you flamed around here. Throughout it all, Greg seemed very sanguine and composed. Kudos to him. It's a shame someone with his experience has to leave on this note.
 
Brian,


Could you please be a little more specific as to who exactly took part in this supposed "lynching" of Greg Walker?

I'm asking you because, as you know, I was one of the forumites who dared disagree with Mr. Walker's views on gun ownership, particularly when he stated that owning and carrying firearms isn't a right, but a privilege granted by certain laws (and BTW, there's absolutely no evidence that he was doing anything but being honest about how he feels when he wrote that, rather than "provoking us to strenghten our positions"). Yet, I did so with the utmost respect, without resorting to name-calling or ironies. That can hardly be classified as "lynching".
(Mr. Walker, on the other hand, saw fit to compare those who disagreed with him with lunatic fringe militiamen and doomsday survivalists, which was not at all fair, and certainly not what you would expect from a moderator).

I believe respectful disagreement has more to do with a discussion forum than hero worshiping.


Leo
 
I am as shocked as Brian and others to see Greg Walker stepping down because of, for lack of a better word, STUPID CRAP. I thought Greg's "thanks" post was to say tahnks, and wish me luck while I'm away. Instead it is thanks, and so long? HUH?

As Greg said, first Chris, and now Greg. GRRRRRRR!

Sorry, I am just a little angry here. I don't know Greg all that well. But what I do know is that he has always been what this forum was about: rational discussion about sharp, pointy things. Deleting posts was the wrong thing to do, but OH WELL! However the "problems" were handled with Greg, it has resulted in his departure as moderator of a MUCH NEEDED AND DEMANDED forum. And as said, Greg listed the rules for this forum, and no one commented negatively on them. Why all of a sudden now?

Mistakes or not, Greg has always been cool headed and warm hearted. I even sent him some Chi Kung tapes that a fellow martial artist gave me, because he was interested in Chi Kung and I thoiught I should share with a person who has given us all so much. Now if Greg is gone for good from Bladeforums.com, I'm going to be really angry.

I apologize if this post doesn't make too much sense. I guess I am just angry and I feel like something really wrong has gone down here. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.


****EDITED TO ADD: I believe I am missing some important detaisl as to the future of this forum and Greg's participation. So, I am taking my own post here with a grain of salt. Some sleep will likely make things make sense. A clear head is a great first step.
 
greg seemed like a ok guy, and i' sure he knows his stuff, but when it comes to politics, in any forum, things get hot, and greg really seemed to take it personal when anyone disagreed w/him, imho. theres a lot of threads around ya could delete cleaning up, why just ones were he was being out-argued (if thats a word) on a point.

takes thick skin to post on the net, imho.

just my .02

good luck greg,

greg
 
Gents,

Appreciate your views on things. Crayola said it best about taking posts with a grain of salt.

No hero worship here -- just respect for what these guys have to do. I've trained with a lot of them, and work with a lot of them on training issues on a daily basis. Some of them have heard about online forums, and laugh, saying those are a waste of time. Yes, there are a$$holes among them, like any other group, but they get humbled real quick or they don't go on ops -- they become REMFs, or they go out into the civilian world and build an empire of wannbe followers -- they become virtual tough guys. They might've gotten through the training, but never operated, but they say they did to impress others. Yes, even in that community, they exist.

But Mr. Walker is not one of those.

It's not a case of thick or thin skins. If they had thin skins, they wouldn't be able (or allowed) to operate. Believe me, it ain't that.

"Greg deleted threads when he was losing the argument." That's an example of someone else attaching motivations to Greg. Maybe you thought he was losing an argument, but didn't find out if HE thought he was losing the argument.

I sometimes am amazed, still, at how people have made this a place to live, rather than realize that it's all bits and bites and words on a screen -- simply a communication tool, nothing more. Persons who have not had their reality replaced by a computer come on here thinking that's its just a forum for discussion, and don't realize how some others have adopted virtual-reality as their reality. It doesn't make sense to them, so maybe they get in trouble because they assume everyone else takes it with the same grain of salt that they do.

So, it's not thin skin, it's a case of wasting too much time online when they have real-world issues to deal with that are a lot more important than spending time on a forum.

Now, I've made some good friends via BFC and the internet, so I don't discount its value. But those friendships started here became real when we got together in person and got to know the human beings behind the words.

~Brian.
 
For clarification purposes only...not to start even more bickering than what has gone on in this forum lately....let me say this....

I originally began to post replys to the Air Marshal thread to clear up what I know to be misconceptions about the program. Now, I could claim to be Jesus Christ himself...duly ordained...right off the cross, would I expect you to believe me? Of course not. Which is why I offered factual..close-to-the-cuff...information about the program...and let my fellow forumites decide who might know more about the subject. Let me give a couple of quick examples..such as the Air Marshal SOP forbids carrying the duty weapon in an ankle rig...since concealment is a primary ally to the FAM...this single fact is extremely important to the day to day operations, ankle rigs with a Sig P229, while possible to get the gun into one...it's next to impossible to conceal it..and is drilled and repeated to every Air Marshal...NO ANKLE RIGS!!!! Mr. Walker did not even know this simple SOP (standard operating procedure)...nor did he know if Air Marshals are allowed to carry back-up guns...he assumes that they can...he doesn't know...he assumes.

I can run down the list of assertions that were made by him...one by one..and refute almost all of them...but it has been done already...albeit it is now a deleted thread...but it was there at one time. At first, I simply wanted folks here to know what is going on in the Air Marshal program...I had no idea that Sierra912 or whatever it is..was/is Greg Walker. It quickly turned into a sniping contest when Mr. Walker posted things like...Who's more dangerous the Air Marshal or the terrorist? You berate those that are fellow law enforcement officers for coming down on him. Understand and understand it clearly...the Federal Air Marshal Program is vital to the National Security of this nation and I saw no professional courtesy forwarded by Mr. Walker to his "Fellow" law enforcement officers in the sky when he made that crack nor when he made the infamous..."It's tough to be a commando" comment when he droned on about what poor shots Air Marshals are supposed to be...according to his "tissue thin" sources.

And...we've been down that road as well....

As for the deleting of the thread...on the face of it...it looked cowardly...he did not like being one-uped and he sank it. He offered no explanation as to why...a simple..."I didn't understand the rules"...just does not cut it! He should have explained his rationale.

Let's not forget...I offered the olive branch early on...I submitted that although we had differing points of view...I thought we were both genuiniely concerned that Air Marshals get the best training they can and I was content to leave it at that. Not so for Mr. Walker...2 days later...he makes a crack about the poor shooting skills he saw on a news cast about Air Marshals..and continued with stories that were little more than exagerations with a few kernels of truths to them..I submit he did it to one up me..and consequently I felt complelled to challenge his knowledge again...it was his choice..he could not leave well enough alone...he buried himself in that argument.

As for the assertion that we should all get out there..and do what he has done before castigating the almighty Walker...how the hell do you know what any of us has done for our country. I sweated my can off on the Mexican border for years chasing down dope runners and smugglers...I've been shot at...jumped in alleys and along the Colorado River...fought countless illegals running through the houses of San Luis, Arizona..all with little or no backup...I was alone!! Now I'm in a different Federal Agency...still law enforcement...Consider this...I can factually tell you how many hubs the Air Marshals fly out of...I can factually tell you the SOP's for the FAM program....I can factually tell you what bullets they carry...how many....what they do during hijackings...where they stand...where they don't stand....I can tell you the LRBL on any plane..(least risk bomb location)...I could tell you all of these things...but I won't..these are operational issues and are classified. I'll leave it up to you, genius to figure out who I work for and what I do for a living.

You want to deify Greg Walker...build a shrine to him...pray to his photo...DON'T lecture to the people of these forums on what to think, say or post. I come here to learn from others and to help others, possibly learn from me. Nobody here lives in these forums or vicariously through them..and to insult us the way you have is inexcusable!!!

Bpman
 
Look back at my post, bpman. I said if it doesn't apply to you, don't respond. Please chill out, dude, and save your energy for your real-world job. I am well aware that you are not one of the ones sitting on his ass typing all the time. BP has one of the toughest jobs out there. And they've taken a lot of unfounded crap, like that 60 Minutes thing. I put all law enforcement and military folks in the same category: you are all out there on the frontlines doing what often is a ****** job, with no thanks, taking risks for the rest of us. My entire work and mission in life is improving the quality of training and gear for our law enforcers, war fighters, peacekeeprs, and rescuers -- so they stay alive on the job.

Nobody is deifying anyone. My post is about the attitudes and lack of action of the armchair warriors among us. I know I called it accurately for quite a few, because I've met some of these "heroes and tactical experts" at shows, etc. That's not an insult: it's an observation.

~B.
 
bpman,

Having read both the "missing" thread as well as this one, and having 25 years with "Uncle" myself in a variety of capacities, I've got to say that I pretty much agree with most of your take (on the issues as well as how they were handled) right down the line.

Lots of guys were tasked from my agency (like yours) to handle the air marshal duties. (Naturally, I don't think it appropriate to discuss any information regarding the program, its training or manpower in a public forum where such intel can possibly be used in a detrimental fashion.)

I also don't think that any man should need an apologist to speak on his behalf. If he can't say it for himself then what's it really mean? Surely, more than one of us has some "real world" experience that deserves the same respect that is being demanded on behalf of the individual in question. I've met many of the extended BladeForums family and trust me, they aren't all armchair warriors. Many have seen the "elephant" in one form or another.

I entered the discussion in this thread to clear up what the "rules" are regarding the deletion of posts and threads. This was my first encounter with Mr. Walker and I certainly did not have (nor do I have) any ax to grind with him or his forum, but I do have an obligation to the members to clear up any problems regarding their experience on the site. I would also like to thank him for his service to our country.
 
Originally posted by Blues
I also don't think that any man should need an apologist to speak on his behalf. If he can't say it for himself then what's it really mean? Surely, more than one of us has some "real world" experience that deserves the same respect that is being demanded on behalf of the individual in question. I've met many of the extended BladeForums family and trust me, they aren't all armchair warriors. Many have seen the "elephant" in one form or another.

I entered the discussion in this thread to clear up what the "rules" are regarding the deletion of posts and threads. This was my first encounter with Mr. Walker and I certainly did not have (nor do I have) any ax to grind with him or his forum, but I do have an obligation to the members to clear up any problems regarding their experience on the site. I would also like to thank him for his service to our country.

Blues,

Greg didn't "need" anything on his behalf -- I just posted how I felt.

As I said, my statement about armchair warriors was not all-inclusive, and many I've become friends with from here are the real deal -- whatever they do in life. Just straight up, solid people.

Yes, you do deserve exactly the same respect for what you do for our country. So, to you and bpman, if I offended you, or demeaned what you both do for work, I do apologize. And I would like to say thank you for every time you put yourselves in harm's way.

There are others here who need to wake up, though. Maybe I should have balanced my post above a little bit better by adding in the positives I see here online. Although I stand by my criticisms above, there are additionally a lot of good posters here as well. But that post wasn't about the positives here, it was to address the negatives.

But alas, it's hard to really know anyone here until you talk, and meet, etc., because so many are one way online, and another in person.

I just hope my post causes a few people to stop and think before they start vilifying others here.
 
Well I am very unhappy w/ Greg leaving and I hope, in my very few posts, I did not contribute in any way to his leaving. I enjoyed the discussion we were having regarding grappling/knife training and looked forward to future exchanges of ideas.
That said, perhaps Greg would consider stopping in and contributing as a member of bladeforums on topics that strike his interests. This would certainly allow him to contribute w/o the responsibilities of being a moderator and also allow him to tell folks to piss-off, etc, when he felt like it.
This is the reason I seldom post on forums that and I really don't have alot of time to be typing (since I type soooo slooowww :)If I had offended anyone I would hope we could work through it (unless it's some seriously FUBARED @#$% like on the RENOTT thread ROTFLOL ) and at least come to an understanding of some sort. :D

Hey the big grin was supposed to go inside the parenthesis!!!
armlok
 
To Sierra912: I too have enjoyed reading your forum. I loved reading
your Springblade books, (I read them all at least 3 times and more)
I would love to see the series continue, at least a half dozen more
books would be great.
Thanks for taking time out of your life to share with all of us your
knowledge, experience and talent, and I hope you will continue to do
so as often as you can in the other forums. Peace be with you and with
your spirit.

Now what I'm about to say may get me kicked out of BF, it may not.
either way, it doesn't matter.

I'm not surprised that Mr. Walker decided to bow out of this forum,
and I don't blame him for doing so, I wish he weren't, but he has to
do what he has to do. After all, he does have a life outside this
forum, as most of us do.

My point is that when I saw Mr. Walker was going to host a forum here,
it surprised me, especially after what happened with Bram Frank, which
I still have no idea what the problem was, and whatever it was, I think that it was highly unreasonable of Spark to deprive us of access
to that forum. There was a lot of good information that just disappeared for no apparent reason. Whatever the problem was, whether
it was something Bram posted, or whether it was something that just
pissed off Spark, or whatever the reason, it was total B.S. that he
chose to deprive us of the information in that forum. I remember one
person posted, asking Spark to give access to it, read-only, with
whatever post or posts were problematic deleted, and Spark refused.

With all due respect, Spark, you are the owner of this forum, and as
such have the right to do what you want with it, but let's be real.
You are not the only one affected by what goes on here. We have lost
Bram, and now Mr. Walker, how many more people of their knowlege,
skill and talent, are going to keep that to themselves rather than
share it in this forum because of this sort of thing?

It is a good thing to have a good discussion, and some healthy debate,
even though one of the problems is trolls, nevertheless, how many more
people might hang in this forum if things were more oriented toward
learning, which I thought was the main purpose of this forum?

People like James Keating, Kelly Worden, and dozens of others who
could make serious contributions to us all. I can understand why JAK
got out of KF 'cause of the b.s. over there with one guy in parti-
cular, and I can also understand why he hasn't made it a point to
come here either.

What is the point of these people coming to this forum to share their
knowledge and then getting kicked off with no apparent reason, or
choosing to leave partly because they have to deal with petty criticisms of how they run their forum?

The forum hosts/moderators do a good job of handling their forums, and
though there are occasional problems, overall, they do a good job.
No doubt about it.

It's too bad, really. BF has a lot of good, interesting, and useful
information, but it makes me wonder, how much more and better we could
have if things were done more equitably.........
 
A few last thoughts before this Forum goes into the Archives -

The very few of you who bleat the loudest about "hero worship" and "thin skin" and so on are - in my honest opinion - the worst violators of the same. "BP" in particular offered nothing to any discussion on the Forum that wasn't tainted with his narrow-minded, emotional, view of the world to include attacking any view, opinion, or commentary that he elected to take exception to. When offered the opportunity to readress issues and not people via a quieter tone and manner he proved incapable of doing so, to include his postings on this thread. It's the Few like "BP" who make cyber discussions of any merit a trial and tribulation, and in the end turn something meant to be fun, interesting, and perhaps an exercise in growth little more than a **** sandwich.

Further, I don't stand in awe of military or LE credentials and certainly don't expect anyone to do the same with regards to me. Hang your "been there - done that" t-shirts in the closet and be who and what you are NOW. As Brian put so well, if you're not training, listening, teaching, learning, and growing on your own - and by doing so helping, encouraging, and bringing others up with you - then you're just a bystander with an opinion. When I created and edited Full Contact Magazine I went out on the mat from the first issue on, and that was what made the difference between FC and "the rest" of the martial arts publications put out on the stands. Talk the talk, walk the walk. But do so carefully and with respect.

"Blues" lambasted this poor old moderator without the benefit of checking with his peers to see "what's up?" before doing so. Oh what strident objections and near religious anger! Then comes the whining and the rationalization ("I vass only following zee Forum's orders.."). Like "BP", Blues takes his world a tad too seriously for me. This is CYBER VOID, fellas. Ain't no paychecks here. Best Old Spark can do for anyone involved is offer a really neat T-Shirt to wear around the yard on Saturdays while taking care of those "honey-dos". As with too many ego-tripping self-absorbed keyboard commandos you've forgotten the Forum, specifically "Battle Blades", was for THE PEOPLE and not for your personal enjoyment of mental masturbation in front a color screen.

Hey, there comes a time when one calls it like they see it, and I'm just sharing with the good folks who count out there - some of whom have posted their displeasure with how this all came down (and I thank ye very much, guys) and whose postings have caused toads in the road like "BP", and "Blues", and Leo D. to quiver and shake about how they've been "misunderstood".

Suck it up, lads. You screwed up and have been called on it. Welcome to the world of FK/FC editorial comment, courtesy of someone who has done his own work and continues to do so. As my good friend and much accomplished artist, writer, author, video producer, father, knife maker, knife designer, and teacher/instructor Datu Kelly Worden says (and I paraphrase), "What have 'they' done who talk so much **** about us? What have they contributed? Where are their books, articles, videos, seminars, classes, students, accomplishments? Who have they trained and lost to battle? Whose accomplishments do they suck off of to make themselves look better than they are - then they ever will be? Do they do more than whine, point fingers, talk behind our backs? No, they don't!"

Chris C. left this Forum because he's a goer and doer, not a sideline commentator and would-be, wanna-be "master" of the cybervoid. Chris teaches real deal folks and has earned his knowledge and experience first hand. He, like me, doesn't care if a small, vocal, simpering little group of trolls throw bitch fits in space. We, and our brothers, walk in the sunlight and feel the heat of the real world. When I see you in class, on the mat, on the range, with sweat coming down off your brow and bruises on your arms, and cuts on your knees, and a bit of well earned pain in your eyes...and your hard earned money paid out for the lessons being shared so you can grow and become a master student of whatever art you are engaged in, then I'll listen to what you have to say with respect and due honor.

Otherwise, you're kidding yourselves.

For the better men and women who contributed to "Battle Blades" you have my sincere thanks. You did so in a positive manner, with honor, with honest intentions, with a desire to become better in some way. You stretched, you opened your minds and hearts, you absorbed, chose, accepted, and put away that which didn't meet your needs quietly like Professionals must do. You DON'T NEED CYBER FORUMS AND CHAT ROOMS to grow and strengthen yourselves. You only need your hearts, minds, and a belief that every day brings us an opportunity to make headway, in some way, toward our goals and objectives. Continue to question, to train, to study, to share, to bring others up with you, to mature and become seasoned. Learn to recognize the difference between "blow hards" and "GO HARDS". Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

And be safe, protect yourselves and your loved ones.

A free key strike doesn't earn anyone the right to engage me privately. Nor does it you. For those of you wonderful people out there on the path to Truth, your Truth, walk tall. For those who need a life, seek one...

'Nuff said.

PSS: Cray, you and the others who contributed so much to the Forum are the BEST! Other good friends met here include Rob S., Mick & the Crew, M. Fuller, Spark, Rob H., Brian the Beheader, Vess, and a host of others (you know who you are :) ). Train hard, train safe, walk tall, look out for others than just yourselves, offer quality products, knowledge, and concern. You guys and gals don't need anything other than what you already have. Just fine tune it, hone it, grow it, make it SING when you need it.

'Cause it ain't nothin' but a thing, baby:D
 
You don't need to hear "sorry you are leaving" from me, Greg, because I believe you are much too wise and way too strong to entertain a remark like that.

You are right on all counts on what you just said.
I will be watching your life henceforth with great interest. And with the warmth of cyber friendship, I wish you the best in all your endeavours.

Perhaps one day before we all retire and start losing some memories, destiny will allow us to share some thoughts on chi kung, and other interesting subjects.

Be strong, Greg. Live long and prosper! :)
 
Greg,


You've got to be kidding... Where did I claim to have been "misunderstood"? Are you under the impression that I was trying to appologize to you or anyone else for something? If so, you couldn't be more wrong. In fact, I stand by everything I previously said.

The full extent of my disagreement with Mr. Walker can be found on these two threads:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197609&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

and

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201675


Those who read my posts on those two threads will see that I was never out of line. Therefore, the accusation that I somehow "screwed up" by having the audacity of disagreeing with Mr. Walker's view on gun ownership is nothing but utter bullsh!t.


(Edited to fix a link to another thread)
 
As far as this BFC is concerned there will never be "true experts" hosting any forum here. The reasons are very simple, to many armchair commandos that think they can hide behind the keyboard and sling $hit from a safe distance. I don't blame the man or any others for leaving. It's like FUKNG Junior High.

Why would any professional put up with that???????

I know I would'nt..

Edited: becuase sometimes I write before thinking..
 
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