A good short read for all the SHTF guys wanting a sword..

crimsonfalcon07 said:
You know spears are dangerous for more than just their sharp parts, right? They're very effective blunt force weapons as well. Which means that you can probably slow down groups of zombies with a sweep, at the very least. And if you are using a polearm with a decently long and sharp head, you can generate a LOT more force with it than with most, if not all, swords. There's certainly something to be said for the efficacy of a spear, especially backed up with a long knife or two. I do love short swords, as you may have been able to tell by now. But a good spear is pretty darn cool.
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Well I'd pick a spear over a sword for hunting, but I'd still go with a bow over a spear if I had a choice. Honestly though, isn't a "sweep" something that would take a lot of practice to pull off if you don't want to smash your spear against the concrete, nail yourself with the other end, or take off your own feet?

Not saying a sword is easy to use in and of itself, but I figure a machete-esque swing has potentially fewer problems than executing a "sweep".

I've seen Shaolin monks doing some real magic with similar weapons, but I figure anything complicated would carry a greater risk of a self-inflicted injury in the hands of an overly enthusiastic mall ninja.

But again, sounds great in roomy areas, not so much indoors or in confined spaces. Every weapon fills its own niche to be honest.


I would say rather than picking a SHTF weapon for an end-all be-all solution, pick one you're used to, know its strengths, and avoid its weaknesses. So if I've got knives and swords on me, I wouldn't be caught dead out in the open. And if I have a bow, I'd want to make sure nothing could creep up on me without me spotting it from 200 feet.
 
BlackKnight86 said:
Horseclover, what is the black leaf shaped spear?
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The spear/pike head is $30 from gggodwin.com It is a very thick chunky monkey. The pole is a 6' >1" bo staff, a nice piece of wood I almost couldn't bear to taper for the head. That was $35ish shipped coast to coast. I forget the site but shipping was only $5 after a great piece of wood priced at $30.

~~~~

Pretty much anything you can do with a staff/bo, you can do with a spear.
Yari duel from Hidden Fortress (worth watching)
http://vimeo.com/7051676

Cheers

GC
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
This discussion sounds like a fun one.
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Indeed, but I suspect we are going to devolve into the sword forum version of "practical tactical" pretty quickly.

Personally, despite a fairly robust collection of swords not one has made it into my 72 hour kit and won't. That weight and space can be far more effectively utilized by packing a hand gun and ammunition.

Swords are fun they became largely impractical with the advent of the modern repeating firearm, and even in some sort of post apocalyptic situation I suspect that they would largely remain impractical. That firearms genie isn't going back in the bottle no matter what.
 
I hear tell that Harrison Ford was originally supposed to go through a big fight scene with his whip vs the sword, but was feeling under the weather (had diarrhea, evidently), and asked if they could shorten the scene somehow. Spielberg said there was only one way, and the rest is history.
 
The MAIN reason why i have sword shaped objects in my SHTF plan is because unlike a spear, swords have MANY uses in a survival scenario in addition to their value as weapons. Obvious this is less true with a katana than it is with a ZT Deuce or Busse AK47, but a sword can be used to clear paths, cut wood, defend yourself and even if necessary to skin animals.

A spear is only good for killing things... animals if you're good enough, and people if the opportunity arises. I prefer versatility and my plans involve avoiding people whenever possible. I'd rather add 6lbs of 5.56 ammo to my load out and leave the spear at home
 
Sounds to me like my ESEE Junglas was the right choice then:D.

I personally think you'd hurt yourself if you tried to skin an animal with a convex blade like a katana, and I honestly wouldn't try to hunt anything with it given that most small game would force you to swing down, and if you miss you'll blunt the weapon(and if you cut through the animal, you'll blunt it on the ground anyway).

As far as cutting wood, experience tells me a small hatchet would be better than everything else for that, and would be well worth the extra weight.

Guns are good, but it won't help you with camping, and you might want some full metal jacket rounds if only so you don't have to pick out bits of bullet out of your game if you shoot it with a hollow point.
 
All things being equal... I'd hate to get a Cold Steel Boar Spear in the face. Those things are pretty hard core.
 
Infi-del said:
All things being equal... I'd hate to get a Cold Steel Boar Spear in the face. Those things are pretty hard core.
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I might go for a custom made spear with a carbon fiber body and beta titanium speartip for weight concerns. Wouldn't be good for smacking people around with the blunt end, but would be an awesome lightweight hunting tool.
 
I was watching some videos on Bronze Age weapons... one said something to the effect of "no fighting man ever went into battle with just one weapon." Spear AND sword. Problem solved.
 
SHTF scenario? that's an interesting subject. The best you can do is be evasive. Strike them when they are vulnerable. It really doesn't matter what you use. You can sharpen a stick.
Never face them head on. There's plenty you can do. The good thing about melee weapons, you don't need ammo. Either way no matter how great a gun you have, it can fail you, your ammo can fail you and also your magazine can fail you. I'm sure most of you guys have plenty of melee tools. Read The Art of War, it has a lot of insight on asymmetrical fighting. Anyways that's my 2 cents on the that.
 
Noctis3880 said:
I personally think you'd hurt yourself if you tried to skin an animal with a convex blade like a katana,
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Convex skinning blades
677BB-500x.jpg

(677BB) Curved Skinner 5 3/4 "

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(870BB) General Purpose 6 1/4 ". Katana-like. Adequate skinner.

655B-500x.jpg

(655B) Curved Skinner/Sticker/Boning 6 "

FK-500x.jpg

(FK2) Farmers Knife 5 "

grohmann%20outdoor%20cover.jpg

The D.H. Russell Belt Knife
Aren't all skinners convex?
 
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When I was 13 I skinned a rabbit with a serrated spyderco. If you're patient and have a sharp edge you can skin it. Not that skinning a rabbit is hard to begin with.
 
The article repeatedly says the katana was not anti-armour. The best pre-gunpowder armour was late medieval European plate. The best weapon against this was the war hammer. The descendant of the anti-plate broadsword is the Scottish basket hilt claymore.
scots.jpg
TargeDirk004.jpg
1745ScottishHighlanderShield.JPG
 
Not picking a dog in this fight or anything but the Swiss pikemen were the top mercenaries in Europe for like 500 yrs so there must be some merit to the idea that a spear or pike would make a good melee weapon because the Swiss were always outnumbered. There has to be a reason they chose a bunch of guys with spears to guard the Pope right?
Brian
 
Big difference between the use of polearms in a medieval battle and a SHTF situation though, just saying. I've already said my piece, but this comment, like the article, involves some oversimplification of the issue. If I'm going to oversimplify it, I'd rather err on the side of saying that one should pick the weapon s/he is best at using.
 
Chances are that in a situation such as we're discussing, most people with any sense are going to gravitate towards a defensible position, and will likely encounter other people with the same idea. Eventually that position will have an armorer of sorts, who probably has a found/scavenged reloading press and the knowledge to create basic black powder, repair weapons, etc. I highly doubt many people will survive long running around with a sword of any type as their main personal defense weapon, although I'm sure some would attempt it. I love the elegance of the sword, most all types, it's romantic and used proficiently it's deadly, but it absolutely won't stop a gunman at even 20 yards away, nor would a spear, unless the thrower was willing to risk losing his weapon and/or was an absolute master at throwing, and the target was willing to stand still. A "workable" firearm can be constructed from pvc pipe, an air resevior and a bicycle pump, there are videos all over youtube, some with .45 and .50 caliber ammo. Longbow, crossbow, even a good wrist rocket and glass marbles or steel shot can all be deadly. Much better to stay back, back farther than the spear could reach, and neutralize any threat at a distance. The Survivors will be the ones who avoid almost every threat, whether it be hand to hand combat or otherwise, and stay with a group of like minded individuals in a defensible position with an arsenal of gathered weapons and close access to clean water and food. Being a sword lover, I'd probably carry one, but certainly more of a Gladius type, anything bigger and you'd have more difficulty navigating wreckage, abandoned/barricaded buildings while searching for supplies, etc.
Pistol with tac light in one hand and the gladius for probing/off hand would be a good combination. no matter what, bear in mind that when you would leave, you're planning on returning to "Base' hopefully laden with supplies, so weight is always going to be a consideration. Your not going to want to be carrying an 80 pound load when you leave on a foraging mission.
 
In a modern world without plate armor or mail I believe a Katana style sword would be the most effective to employ.

The combination of speed and cutting ability would be devastating to the unaware I'd wager.
 
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